Nylander signs 6-year contract

[ZBBM]

This is may ultimately be a minor point but I still think letting it play out like it did is a failure (of process, not results) on the part of Dubas.  If the reported timeline is correct, they got the signed contract at 4:52p EST ... and still had to do some back and forths before submitting to the league.  That is insane.

Sure, it came out all right at literally the last minute but the process is important.  There was no need for that.  All Dubas/Leafs had to do is tell Gross/Nylander that our drop-dead, not-going-to-be-extended internal deadline is X, where X is some date/time well in advance of the official deadline (and we can debate endlessly what an ideal X would have been). 

There is no way a manager should have let that become a high-wire act.

 

[Highlander]

Dubas is actually a member of the Flying Wallendas

 

[ZBBM]

Dubas is actually a member of the Flying Wallendas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Wallenda

 

[TML fan]

This is may ultimately be a minor point but I still think letting it play out like it did is a failure (of process, not results) on the part of Dubas.  If the reported timeline is correct, they got the signed contract at 4:52p EST ... and still had to do some back and forths before submitting to the league.  That is insane.

Sure, it came out all right at literally the last minute but the process is important.  There was no need for that.  All Dubas/Leafs had to do is tell Gross/Nylander that our drop-dead, not-going-to-be-extended internal deadline is X, where X is some date/time well in advance of the official deadline (and we can debate endlessly what an ideal X would have been). 

There is no way a manager should have let that become a high-wire act.

I don't understand this line of thinking. If they had an internal deadline, the deal might not have been done at all. How is that a better outcome?

This whole situation has been the definition of "It ain't over till it's over".

 

[ZBBM]

This is may ultimately be a minor point but I still think letting it play out like it did is a failure (of process, not results) on the part of Dubas.  If the reported timeline is correct, they got the signed contract at 4:52p EST ... and still had to do some back and forths before submitting to the league.  That is insane.

Sure, it came out all right at literally the last minute but the process is important.  There was no need for that.  All Dubas/Leafs had to do is tell Gross/Nylander that our drop-dead, not-going-to-be-extended internal deadline is X, where X is some date/time well in advance of the official deadline (and we can debate endlessly what an ideal X would have been). 

There is no way a manager should have let that become a high-wire act.

I don't understand this line of thinking. If they had an internal deadline, the deal might not have been done at all. How is that a better outcome?

Why wouldn't it have gotten done?  The dynamics are exactly the same ... so long as Dubas (or whomever) makes it clear to the agent/player that it is a hard deadline.  Of course if the manager isn't committed to that, it doesn't make sense.

 

[TML fan]

This is may ultimately be a minor point but I still think letting it play out like it did is a failure (of process, not results) on the part of Dubas.  If the reported timeline is correct, they got the signed contract at 4:52p EST ... and still had to do some back and forths before submitting to the league.  That is insane.

Sure, it came out all right at literally the last minute but the process is important.  There was no need for that.  All Dubas/Leafs had to do is tell Gross/Nylander that our drop-dead, not-going-to-be-extended internal deadline is X, where X is some date/time well in advance of the official deadline (and we can debate endlessly what an ideal X would have been). 

There is no way a manager should have let that become a high-wire act.

I don't understand this line of thinking. If they had an internal deadline, the deal might not have been done at all. How is that a better outcome?

Why wouldn't it have gotten done?  The dynamics are exactly the same ... so long as Dubas (or whomever) makes it clear to the agent/player that it is a hard deadline.  Of course if the manager isn't committed to that, it doesn't make sense.

Because it's pretty obvious that Nylander's camp wasn't ready to deal until it came down to the wire, if what Dubas said about Nylander calling him is to be believed.

Any kind of internal deadline is just nonsense from the other side of the table. If Nylander's camp called back at the exact same time they did yesterday and said "Let's make a deal" and Dubas was like "nope sorry deadline is passed" then that would be the real failure because the only deadline that passed was the made up one that doesn't mean anything.

 

[herman]

Nylander is one of those young stars who also happened to be able to sustain a protracted period of unpayment. I?m glad no one played stupid(er) hardball.

 

[Fanatic]

The thread is locked so I can't quote myself directly but this is me on September 12th:

Mackinnon signed his extension after two seasons where he scored 38 and then 52 points. He signed for 6.3 million which represented 8.63% of the cap. A comparable cap hit for Nylander, coming off two straight 60+ point seasons, would work out to roughly 6.9 million which would be a nice deal for Nylander

Now, sure, some might say that the rest of that post doesn't indicate this is a prediction but just a stupid joke but I'm still going to declare a sort of victory.

8) Nicely done.

 

[Zee]

This is may ultimately be a minor point but I still think letting it play out like it did is a failure (of process, not results) on the part of Dubas.  If the reported timeline is correct, they got the signed contract at 4:52p EST ... and still had to do some back and forths before submitting to the league.  That is insane.

Sure, it came out all right at literally the last minute but the process is important.  There was no need for that.  All Dubas/Leafs had to do is tell Gross/Nylander that our drop-dead, not-going-to-be-extended internal deadline is X, where X is some date/time well in advance of the official deadline (and we can debate endlessly what an ideal X would have been). 

There is no way a manager should have let that become a high-wire act.

No matter what Dubas and company told Lewis Gross about their deadline, it's human nature for Gross to think "sure, they SAY the deadline is 1pm but if we come back at them at 4:30 I'm sure they'll still move"

And he's not wrong in that thinking.  If at 1pm Dubas says "the deal is 6.8 take it or leave it" and at 4:30 Gross comes back with 6.9 are you going to say no over 100k?

 

[Kin]

Nylander is one of those young stars who also happened to be able to sustain a protracted period of unpayment.

Realistically though, what's the minimum that any of these guys are actually earning on their ELC? Between salary and bonuses Matthews and Marner have to have made at least 5-6 million each by now even before you get to any outside money.

Nylander's dad made some money and maybe he was a bit better situated than most but none of these guys, if they have good rookie and sophomore seasons are going to sign their second contracts because their phones are about to be switched off.

 

[herman]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/analyzing-william-nylander-brings-maple-leafs/

Going through this cross-section of statistics, you can see that while Nylander is about the fourth-best offensive player on the Maple Leafs, he is absolutely their best transition player, especially at both blue lines. Nylander either carries the puck out or is the passing option on zone exits almost nine times per 20 minutes, which is just a monstrous amount, and he creates more controlled entries into the offensive zone than any other Leafs player.

 

[princedpw]

The thread is locked so I can't quote myself directly but this is me on September 12th:

Mackinnon signed his extension after two seasons where he scored 38 and then 52 points. He signed for 6.3 million which represented 8.63% of the cap. A comparable cap hit for Nylander, coming off two straight 60+ point seasons, would work out to roughly 6.9 million which would be a nice deal for Nylander

Now, sure, some might say that the rest of that post doesn't indicate this is a prediction but just a stupid joke but I'm still going to declare a sort of victory.

I think it would be fair to say that you have a lot of posts on this topic.  Some of the other posts make different comparisons.

 

[Kin]

I think it would be fair to say that you have a lot of posts on this topic.  Some of the other posts make different comparisons.

It's a fair point. Clearly that declaration of victory was unwarranted. Thank you for keeping me in check.

 

[herman]

Nylander is one of those young stars who also happened to be able to sustain a protracted period of unpayment.

Realistically though, what's the minimum that any of these guys are actually earning on their ELC? Between salary and bonuses Matthews and Marner have to have made at least 5-6 million each by now even before you get to any outside money.

Nylander's dad made some money and maybe he was a bit better situated than most but none of these guys, if they have good rookie and sophomore seasons are going to sign their second contracts because their phones are about to be switched off.

This was more as a point of comparison to some of the other RFAs that didn?t quite go the distance with their GMs.

 

[princedpw]

It looks like the average game day thread is about 8 pages.  If that?s true, we?ve spent ~200 pages writing about games.  I can?t find the other Nylander thread but it was up to 150 pages perhaps?  So with 10 more here we are ~160?  ~200 vs ~160 is kind of ridiculous. Thank god it is over.

 

[Kin]

This was more as a point of comparison to some of the other RFAs that didn?t quite go the distance with their GMs.

Right, and I'm saying that I don't think any of them signed because of the money, or lack thereof, in the bank when compared to Nylander.

 

[Guilt Trip]

It looks like the average game day thread is about 8 pages.  If that?s true, we?ve spent ~200 pages writing about games.  I can?t find the other Nylander thread but it was up to 150 pages perhaps?  So with 10 more here we are ~160?  ~200 vs ~160 is kind of ridiculous. Thank god it is over.

150 pages?? Gameday threads are only 2 or 3 pages. You do know you can adjust the number of responses per page right? Default is 15, max is 50. Makes for a lot less clicking....just saying.
Profile>Look and Layout>Messages to Display

 

[ZBBM]

This is may ultimately be a minor point but I still think letting it play out like it did is a failure (of process, not results) on the part of Dubas.  If the reported timeline is correct, they got the signed contract at 4:52p EST ... and still had to do some back and forths before submitting to the league.  That is insane.

Sure, it came out all right at literally the last minute but the process is important.  There was no need for that.  All Dubas/Leafs had to do is tell Gross/Nylander that our drop-dead, not-going-to-be-extended internal deadline is X, where X is some date/time well in advance of the official deadline (and we can debate endlessly what an ideal X would have been). 

There is no way a manager should have let that become a high-wire act.

I don't understand this line of thinking. If they had an internal deadline, the deal might not have been done at all. How is that a better outcome?

Why wouldn't it have gotten done?  The dynamics are exactly the same ... so long as Dubas (or whomever) makes it clear to the agent/player that it is a hard deadline.  Of course if the manager isn't committed to that, it doesn't make sense.

Because it's pretty obvious that Nylander's camp wasn't ready to deal until it came down to the wire, if what Dubas said about Nylander calling him is to be believed.

Any kind of internal deadline is just nonsense from the other side of the table. If Nylander's camp called back at the exact same time they did yesterday and said "Let's make a deal" and Dubas was like "nope sorry deadline is passed" then that would be the real failure because the only deadline that passed was the made up one that doesn't mean anything.

It's not nonsense if it's enforced.  That's what makes any deadline mean something.  If he'd set an earlier deadline and stuck to it, what's the difference?  The difference is that he would have had time to trade Nylander, if he he wanted. 

Think of it like this.  What if the metaphorical fax machine had gone down at 4:50p?  Say, a fire alarm goes off in the hotel, the power goes out, the cell connection or web or whatever goes down.  Today we'd be reading stories about how Dubas blew it, and he would have.  He, not Nylander's camp, controls the contract process.

 

[ZBBM]

This is may ultimately be a minor point but I still think letting it play out like it did is a failure (of process, not results) on the part of Dubas.  If the reported timeline is correct, they got the signed contract at 4:52p EST ... and still had to do some back and forths before submitting to the league.  That is insane.

Sure, it came out all right at literally the last minute but the process is important.  There was no need for that.  All Dubas/Leafs had to do is tell Gross/Nylander that our drop-dead, not-going-to-be-extended internal deadline is X, where X is some date/time well in advance of the official deadline (and we can debate endlessly what an ideal X would have been). 

There is no way a manager should have let that become a high-wire act.

No matter what Dubas and company told Lewis Gross about their deadline, it's human nature for Gross to think "sure, they SAY the deadline is 1pm but if we come back at them at 4:30 I'm sure they'll still move"

And he's not wrong in that thinking.  If at 1pm Dubas says "the deal is 6.8 take it or leave it" and at 4:30 Gross comes back with 6.9 are you going to say no over 100k?

It's a moot point because I would have traded him by then, and I would have let Gross know that at 1pm. 

 

[Bullfrog]

It's nonsense because it's arbitrary. It's a line drawn in the sand purely out of ego.

Going down to the wire isn't really a risk like it was in the stone ages of fax machines. Probably it was a simple phone call to the league office to say "we have a deal in place." More likely, the deal was already at the office and they just had to say "done."