Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre

[Champ Kind]

I don't have a problem with Kadri asking for what he's asking. And I don't have a problem with the Leafs offering what they're offering. It's a negotiation, that's how this works. Eventually they'll find a common ground. What does bug me about this whole thing is how it's being played out in the media. And that's not just on Kadri and his 'bobo' comment. Nonis and the Leafs have been negotiating through the media just as much if not more.

If this is in fact true, and given the way management / coaches have seemed to make uncharacteristically brazen or bold comments towards Kadri, I have to ask, "Why?".  I mean, between the defence and the fitness and the fatness and the selfishness and on and on, it seems like Kadri has been publically scrutinized and criticized by the team way more than anyone else that I can remember.  Is it about "teaching him a lesson", fighting fire with fire, or fending off the onset of "Blue and White" disease? 

I'm not sure the exact answer, but I can't help but think it has something to do with Nazm Kadri being a bit different in what is still a fairly homogenous hockey culture where players act, look, and speak in a particular way.  I don't want to over-emphasize the point or have this comment lead into directions I didn't intend, because frankly I haven't really thought about it that much, but it sure does look like there's some sort of bias against the guy from the Leafs management and coaches that has stretched over a number of years.

 

[Corn Flake]

Kypreos saying it's going to be a 2 year deal, Kadri trying to get over $3 (think he said $3.5) but "that's not happening".

 

[dappleganger]

Funny, I think Kadri totally deserves 2 yr @3.5m.

And for anyone who disagrees, that's how much we were paying Jeff Finger.

 

[Corn Flake]

Funny, I think Kadri totally deserves 2 yr @3.5m.

And for anyone who disagrees, that's how much we were paying Jeff Finger.

So because an awful contract was given to Jeff Finger, the bar is permanently raised to that level?

By that logic, basically every player who signs a contract with the Leafs from here on in should make less than Jeff Finger.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't have a problem with Kadri asking for what he's asking. And I don't have a problem with the Leafs offering what they're offering. It's a negotiation, that's how this works. Eventually they'll find a common ground. What does bug me about this whole thing is how it's being played out in the media. And that's not just on Kadri and his 'bobo' comment. Nonis and the Leafs have been negotiating through the media just as much if not more.

In 2013 though, I just sort of expect in prolonged negotiations that numbers are going to be out in the public realm.

 

[Bender]

Kypreos saying it's going to be a 2 year deal, Kadri trying to get over $3 (think he said $3.5) but "that's not happening".

I think $3.5 is reasonable honestly. I think there's also a bit of an issue in regards to the cap - we still need to fit Franson. I think we just need to get over this hump year and wait for the cap to increase. Although a one year deal from Franson should get it done.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I don't have a problem with Kadri asking for what he's asking. And I don't have a problem with the Leafs offering what they're offering. It's a negotiation, that's how this works. Eventually they'll find a common ground. What does bug me about this whole thing is how it's being played out in the media. And that's not just on Kadri and his 'bobo' comment. Nonis and the Leafs have been negotiating through the media just as much if not more.

In 2013 though, I just sort of expect in prolonged negotiations that numbers are going to be out in the public realm.

I don't mind the fact that numbers are being leaked. I get that happens. My problem is more with both sides getting in front of a microphone and taking to make their case to the media as to why the other side should take their offer. That includes both Kadri talking about how he's done everything the Leafs have asked of him in the past 3 or so years and Nonis saying how Kadri hasn't shown the consistency or track record to deserve a big contract yet.

Both sides are trying to fight a PR battle here to make themselves look good and the other side bad. I know that they aren't very damaging comments as you can argue both are true, but you just don't see other teams or players engaging in them like this. Even when Nonis talks about Franson he just gives the generic "we're talking and getting closer" comment that is usually given.

 

[dappleganger]

Funny, I think Kadri totally deserves 2 yr @3.5m.

And for anyone who disagrees, that's how much we were paying Jeff Finger.

So because an awful contract was given to Jeff Finger, the bar is permanently raised to that level?

By that logic, basically every player who signs a contract with the Leafs from here on in should make less than Jeff Finger.

No, just that 3.5m isn't unreasonable for Kadri considering that was the asking price for Finger who had a whopping 94 games of NHL experience at the time. Just trying to give some context.

If you think 3.5m is an awful contract for Kadri you might want to reconsider your logic and look at contracts like Adam Henrique just signed.

Your second statement doesn't make sense.

 

[Andy007]

Funny, I think Kadri totally deserves 2 yr @3.5m.

And for anyone who disagrees, that's how much we were paying Jeff Finger.

So because an awful contract was given to Jeff Finger, the bar is permanently raised to that level?

By that logic, basically every player who signs a contract with the Leafs from here on in should make less than Jeff Finger.

No, just that 3.5m isn't unreasonable for Kadri considering that was the asking price for Finger who had a whopping 94 games of NHL experience at the time. Just trying to give some context.

What does Finger's contract have anything to do with Kadri? What a weird comparison.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

What does Finger's contract have anything to do with Kadri? What a weird comparison.

It has about as much in common with Kadri's reported $3.5mil asking price as his previous $5.5mil asking price had with Tavares' contract.

 

[Corn Flake]

Funny, I think Kadri totally deserves 2 yr @3.5m.

And for anyone who disagrees, that's how much we were paying Jeff Finger.

So because an awful contract was given to Jeff Finger, the bar is permanently raised to that level?

By that logic, basically every player who signs a contract with the Leafs from here on in should make less than Jeff Finger.

No, just that 3.5m isn't unreasonable for Kadri considering that was the asking price for Finger who had a whopping 94 games of NHL experience at the time. Just trying to give some context.

If you think 3.5m is an awful contract for Kadri you might want to reconsider your logic and look at contracts like Adam Henrique just signed.

Your second statement doesn't make sense.

I don't know how to compare Henrique to Kadri or anyone else for that matter. The Devils clearly think they are getting a deal on signing him to that money.  IMO it's an extreme example.

More relevant examples:

Logan Couture: 2 years, $5.75 mil. 159 NHL games, 121 pts when he signed it.

Matt Duchene: 2 years $7 mil. 219 NHL games, 150 pts.

Kadri: 99 games, 63 points.  Sooo where does he fit in with those two? No idea how you can say he's worth more than Couture, IMO.

How does my statement not make sense? My point is you could pull that "well look at what Finger got" statement out for any player. If you think they compare, then it's as relevant to any other player as it is to Kadri.  What really makes no sense at all is comparing Finger to anyone.  It was a big mistake signing, he was a UFA, he was several years older (28?) etc etc etc.

 

[Corn Flake]

Kypreos saying it's going to be a 2 year deal, Kadri trying to get over $3 (think he said $3.5) but "that's not happening".

I think $3.5 is reasonable honestly. I think there's also a bit of an issue in regards to the cap - we still need to fit Franson. I think we just need to get over this hump year and wait for the cap to increase. Although a one year deal from Franson should get it done.

He isn't worth more than Couture who signed a year ago for $2.75 and $3 mil for two years respectively, when the cap was higher and he had 60 more NHL games played and almost double the NHL points of Kadri.

I think he has to take it on the chin a bit this year, sign for something like Couture and move on.  I would go with $2.5 this year and $3.5 next year. Helps the team a bit now and gives him a bit more next season.

 

[Kin]

Logan Couture: 2 years, $5.75 mil. 159 NHL games, 121 pts when he signed it.

Matt Duchene: 2 years $7 mil. 219 NHL games, 150 pts.

Kadri: 99 games, 63 points.  Sooo where does he fit in with those two? No idea how you can say he's worth more than Couture, IMO.

Couture actually signed that extension in August of 2011, at which point he actually had 65 points in 105 career games. His best season at that point had him finishing 66th in the NHL scoring race. Kadri just came off a season where he finished 21st in the league in scoring.

Likewise, Duchene signed his extension after a pretty disappointing year(albeit one preceded by two good years).

 

[Bender]

Logan Couture: 2 years, $5.75 mil. 159 NHL games, 121 pts when he signed it.

Matt Duchene: 2 years $7 mil. 219 NHL games, 150 pts.

Kadri: 99 games, 63 points.  Sooo where does he fit in with those two? No idea how you can say he's worth more than Couture, IMO.

Couture actually signed that extension in August of 2011, at which point he actually had 65 points in 105 career games. His best season at that point had him finishing 66th in the NHL scoring race. Kadri just came off a season where he finished 21st in the league in scoring.

He's a good player, no doubt, but he needs to prove himself over a full season. There's no way of knowing whether he would've kept the pace or dropped off.

 

[Peter D.]

Kadri at 2 years, $3.5 per is very reasonable.  The only problem I see in that is that the Leafs (and other teams for that matter) will point to Subban's sub-$3 million bridge deal and use that as the sticking point. 

I get where both sides are coming from in this negotiation.  I understand one side is eventually going to lose out on money (the Leafs if Kadri explodes and garners more than what he is asking for now; Kadri if he doesn't continue the same pace).  Unfortunately for Kadri's side he has minimal to no leverage in this situation. 

 

[bustaheims]

Couture actually signed that extension in August of 2011, at which point he actually had 65 points in 105 career games. His best season at that point had him finishing 66th in the NHL scoring race. Kadri just came off a season where he finished 21st in the league in scoring.

He was also fresh off a playoff run where he put up 7 goals and 14 points in 18 games, which helped boost his value.

 

[dappleganger]

How does my statement not make sense? My point is you could pull that "well look at what Finger got" statement out for any player. If you think they compare, then it's as relevant to any other player as it is to Kadri.  What really makes no sense at all is comparing Finger to anyone.  It was a big mistake signing, he was a UFA, he was several years older (28?) etc etc etc.

Jeff Finger asked for 3.5m and got it. If Kadri is asking for 3.5m I don't think he's being unreasonable.

Not comparing them as players but what 3.5m gets you.

Maybe Jeff Finger was too polarizing for you. I apologize. Jeff Finger was a stupid name to bring up but I was trying to make a point.

 

[Kin]

Couture actually signed that extension in August of 2011, at which point he actually had 65 points in 105 career games. His best season at that point had him finishing 66th in the NHL scoring race. Kadri just came off a season where he finished 21st in the league in scoring.

He was also fresh off a playoff run where he put up 7 goals and 14 points in 18 games, which helped boost his value.

Sure. He also did it with generally better linemates than Kadri had. Still, 21st vs. 66th is a big gap. Couture basically had JVR's season.

 

[dappleganger]

What does Finger's contract have anything to do with Kadri? What a weird comparison.

Just the 3.5m annual cap hit that Kadri is apparently asking for.

Yes, it is a weird comparison.

 

[bustaheims]

Just the 3.5m annual cap hit that Kadri is apparently asking for.

Yes, it is a weird comparison.

It's more than just weird. It's comparing a defenceman to a forward, a UFA to an RFA, a contract signed 5 years ago to one being negotiated this summer, and using a mistake by a senile Cliff Fletcher that resulted in the player spending half of the contract in the AHL in order to avoid the cap hit - which can't be done anymore - as a comparison. Really, is an absurd comparison.