Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre

[CarltonTheBear]

Jeeze. How much is MLSE paying these reporters to ask Couture and Duchene about this?

You're really defensive about Kadri, eh?

That was obviously tongue-in-cheek, but yeah I do think that the Leafs have botched this whole process. I was thinking about how I was going to form my reply and then I read Nik's and it pretty much sums up my thoughts completely.

Bridge contracts are nice and all at first, but if you're confident in your player reaching his potential in the end you'll end up paying him more. Nonis said it himself. He said that players who go the bridge contract route are "going to be wealthier because of it". So why isn't Nonis even entertaining the option of not going the bridge route? Well it's because he's used up all of his cap space and literally has no other option but to sign Kadri to a one or two year deal.

I've brought this up before, but P.K. Subban is a perfect example of this. Montreal could have probably locked him up long-term for about $5mil. Now that he's won the Norris even if he doesn't have that great of a season this year he's still going to be able to command $7+mil. And there's no way his camp is going to allow another short-term deal next summer. And the worst part about this for Montreal is that that could have very likely fit Subban under their cap this and last season at about $5mil. They just chose to take a hard-line stance during their negotiations and it's going to cost them in the end.

Obviously, that's a pretty extreme case. But in most instances the guys that have to choose between bridge deals and long-term contracts are going to be legit NHLers. These debates don't happen for the Joe Colborne's of the world. So nine times out of ten I would rather sign a player to a 7 year deal worth $x-mil than sign him to a 2 year deal worth $(x-2)mil then a 5 year deal worth $(x+2)mil.

For a team that had as much cap space as the Leafs did before the offseason began we shouldn't have ever been put in this position. I know that we had a decent amount of players to sign, but we had our three best forwards, two of our four best defencemen, and our starting goalie all under contract. The holes weren't big but Nonis threw big money around to fill them. Regardless of how high the cap goes next season, Nonis is going to have a very difficult time getting Kessel, Phaneuf, Reimer, Gardiner, Bolland, Kulemin, McClement, plus possibly Kadri and Franson all re-signed.

 

[hockeyfan1]

...Regardless of how high the cap goes next season, Nonis is going to have a very difficult time getting Kessel, Phaneuf, Reimer, Gardiner, Bolland, Kulemin, McClement, plus possibly Kadri and Franson all re-signed.

Therefore, from this list, which players are least likely to not be re-signed?

 

[Kin]

I think a Henrique-type deal would be an excellent deal for the Leafs.  Current salary cap be damned.  Without any info and just pure speculation on my part, I don't think though that Kadri would settle for "only" $4 milion over the next six years.  He keeps up what he did this past season and he knows he will get paid.  Guys like Duchene and Couture each signed deals for $6 million.  We can debate where he fits amongst those guys, but he is closer to them than he is Henrique. 

Yeah, but at least in Duchene's case he was coming off of a really disappointing season when he signed that deal. I don't think he signs the same deal if he's coming off his 67 point year. It seems like Kadri wants to sign a longer term deal and, because of that, I'm assuming that he's not being crazy about the AAV.

Anyways, you're probably right that Kadri wouldn't sign the exact same deal that Henrique signed but even something at 4.5 or 4.75 per I think would have been a really good investment for the Leafs. If you're buying two or three UFA years I'm fine with the bigger cap hit right away.

 

[mr grieves]

I'd be a little disappointed by a two-year deal. I know people think that it would be the best thing for the Leafs but I kind of go the other way. If you can sign him to a deal similar to the one Adam Henrique signed I think the Leafs ultimately do better for themselves and, quite frankly, the Leafs need some guys performing well above their contract if they're going to have a bunch of guys on the roster like Clarkson, Bozak, Kessel and Phaneuf who they'll be paying at market value.

So while I appreciate that that sort of thing doesn't fit into the Leafs current cap situation it would have been nice to have locked Kadri up until he was 28-29, I think.

Agreed. If he could had for the next 6 years at $4.5-5m, the team would have another JVR-type contract on the books. Given the 40 game hot streak, some will think he doesn't yet 'deserve' it. If he regresses next season, many will think it's a bad contract. But if he continues along in his development the way most project him to, most will see it as a great contract.

But the cap situation seems to be making what Kadri apparently wants and what'd be in the best long-term interests of the team impossible to get done.

 

[Kin]

But the cap situation seems to be making what Kadri apparently wants and what'd be in the best long-term interests of the team impossible to get done.

That doesn't really seem to be the issue though. The Leafs probably knew what Kadri wanted going into these negotiations and they genuinely don't seem interested in going that route.

 

[mr grieves]

But the cap situation seems to be making what Kadri apparently wants and what'd be in the best long-term interests of the team impossible to get done.

That doesn't really seem to be the issue though. The Leafs probably knew what Kadri wanted going into these negotiations and they genuinely don't seem interested in going that route.

Probably right. But why do you think they wouldn't? Do they doubt Kadri's as good as they keep saying he is or as good as they're counting on him being for them for the foreseeable future? Does Dave Nonis feel some moral obligation to pay the market rate for everything he buys? Is getting David Clarkson under contract valued so much that it's worth not only $5.25m x 7 but also an extra $2m x 3 or 4 (figuring Kadri gets $5.5-6m if he renegotiates after a bridge)? I'm not able to divine Dave's long game here. And, whatever you think the plan is, do you think it's better than Kadri signed through his 28 y/o season for $4.5-5m?

 

[lamajama]

Dave's game here is to use the only leverage the team has
(other than entry-level deals) and pay a fair salary until Kadri can prove himself. In his place, we'd all want to hit the home run too but in almost every circumstance any team would want to see some history prior to the first big deal. Carlyle sheltered Kadri last year, and this year he'll be up against tighter checking, longer minutes and higher expectations.
Again I know why he's asking for the dough but if he's so sure he'll do so well then he'd be making out like PK is going to. It's a risk on both sides and that's fair.

NB. Like I've said before, Nonis is entirely to blame for the Cap idiocy. Now he HAS to get Naz and Franson cheaper than they really want when perhaps a bump of $500k or so might bridge the gap but he cannot even do that. 

 

[mr grieves]

Dave's game here is to use the only leverage the team has
(other than entry-level deals) and pay a fair salary until Kadri can prove himself. 

I understand the leverage that GMs have over RFAs without arbitration rights. But I wonder if that leverage is at all undermined by what happens down the middle if Kadri isn't signed by the beginning of the season: Bozak, Bolland, McClement, Colborne isn't a complement of centers to strike fear in the heart of anyone...

 

[Kin]

Probably right. But why do you think they wouldn't?

I'll take them at their word that they want to see Kadri produce over the course of a full season before making that kind of commitment. I don't agree with that but it's not crazy.

And, whatever you think the plan is, do you think it's better than Kadri signed through his 28 y/o season for $4.5-5m?

Well, like I said I would have preferred the longer term approach but being as I still think it would have been possible to do that and sign Franson(assuming Franson signs for 3.5 or so) if they dealt Liles I think it's safe to say that it's not a cap issue but just them hedging their bets.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Dave's game here is to use the only leverage the team has
(other than entry-level deals) and pay a fair salary until Kadri can prove himself. 

I understand the leverage that GMs have over RFAs without arbitration rights. But I wonder if that leverage is at all undermined by what happens down the middle if Kadri isn't signed by the beginning of the season: Bozak, Bolland, McClement, Colborne isn't a complement of centers to strike fear in the heart of anyone...

Is Kadri really an upgrade that strikes that much more fear

 

[KadriFan]

Dave's game here is to use the only leverage the team has
(other than entry-level deals) and pay a fair salary until Kadri can prove himself. 

I understand the leverage that GMs have over RFAs without arbitration rights. But I wonder if that leverage is at all undermined by what happens down the middle if Kadri isn't signed by the beginning of the season: Bozak, Bolland, McClement, Colborne isn't a complement of centers to strike fear in the heart of anyone...

Is Kadri really an upgrade that strikes that much more fear

He will be....

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Dave's game here is to use the only leverage the team has
(other than entry-level deals) and pay a fair salary until Kadri can prove himself. 

I understand the leverage that GMs have over RFAs without arbitration rights. But I wonder if that leverage is at all undermined by what happens down the middle if Kadri isn't signed by the beginning of the season: Bozak, Bolland, McClement, Colborne isn't a complement of centers to strike fear in the heart of anyone...

Is Kadri really an upgrade that strikes that much more fear

Well, he did score well over twice as many points last season as Bolland and McClement did combined, so yeah.

 

[Bullfrog]

Forget about stats for a moment. Just watch him play. He was dangerous on almost every shift.

 

[caver]

And I think the proposed Clarkson - Kadri - Lupul line will be fun to watch !

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I didn't say he wasn't good, or a talented player. I get that having him in the line up makes the Leafs better. I just don't see that he strikes fear into any other team...Not yet.

 

[Kin]

If he's a significantly better player, who cares about the supposed fear he strikes into anyone? It's not like hockey players actually get scared of playing each other and, given the option, I'd rather that another team take him lightly.

 

[mr grieves]

If he's a significantly better player, who cares about the supposed fear he strikes into anyone? It's not like hockey players actually get scared of playing each other and, given the option, I'd rather that another team take him lightly.

I think 'fear' might've been taken a bit too literally. I meant: without Kadri, the Leafs have a pretty putrid group of centers to start the season and only one highly skilled playmaking forward.

 

[caver]

The centers could be a middling bunch without Kadri but putrid ?

 

[Redleaf]

The centers could be a middling bunch without Kadri but putrid ?

Yeah. That's a pretty discouraging opinion about our depth at centre. .

And I don't see Kadri as a centre that could tip the scale at that position alone.

 

[mr grieves]

The centers could be a middling bunch without Kadri but putrid ?

What group of centers in the East are Bozak-Bolland-McClement-Colborne in the middle of..?