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Panthers @ Leafs - Dec. 17th, 7:00pm - LeafsTV, SN 590

Potvin29 said:
Those aren't the #1 and 2 centre's on the Leafs.  Kadri is #1 and even if Bozak is technically on the 1st line he's at least #2.
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I guess its just my opinion. Kadri has a lot to learn, Bozak was a staple between JVR and Kessel prior, and Bolland was just plain terrific before the injury.
 
Potvin29 said:
2badknees said:
Did pat burns have his top 2 centres out during his losing skid?

I don't think people realize the value of Bolland and yes, even Bozak.
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Those aren't the #1 and 2 centre's on the Leafs.  Kadri is #1 and even if Bozak is technically on the 1st line he's at least #2.
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Right now we've gone from Bozak-Kadri-Bolland to Kadri-Holland-McClement. Kadri is probably an upgrade over Bozak anyway at that spot. Holland has looked very comfortable in a 2nd line role. And then there's McClement who Carlyle loves anyway. So really there's only a clear downgrade at the 3C position.
 
I know I'm watching him more closely than others right now but Clarkson leaks up the ice an awful lot for a guy who is playing "defense".  He's been the last man back into the defensive zone a few times and seems to be the first one going up the ice. 
 
2badknees said:
Potvin29 said:
Those aren't the #1 and 2 centre's on the Leafs.  Kadri is #1 and even if Bozak is technically on the 1st line he's at least #2.
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I guess its just my opinion. Kadri has a lot to learn, Bozak was a staple between JVR and Kessel prior, and Bolland was just plain terrific before the injury.
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The fact that Bozak was a staple there doesn't mean he was playing well. And I think you're remembering Bolland with rose-tinted glasses. I think he was a pleasant surprise, sure, but no more than that.
 
L K said:
I know I'm watching him more closely than others right now but Clarkson leaks up the ice an awful lot for a guy who is playing "defense".  He's been the last man back into the defensive zone a few times and seems to be the first one going up the ice.
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His defense has never been a strong point for him
 
Beowulf said:
L K said:
I know I'm watching him more closely than others right now but Clarkson leaks up the ice an awful lot for a guy who is playing "defense".  He's been the last man back into the defensive zone a few times and seems to be the first one going up the ice.
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His defense has never been a strong point for him
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The man is an offensive machine. You can't expect him to do everything well.
 
Potvin29 said:
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Potvin29 said:
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Potvin29 said:
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Potvin29 said:
Strangelove said:
And with Phaneuf signed we're gonna have the core of this team in place long term.
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Phaneuf's been very good this season against arguably the toughest competition + zone starts in the entire NHL.  This bad game doesn't change that.
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Not good enough for expected term/dough.  Period.
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Disagree and we'll leave it at that to avoid any unpleasantness.
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Good idea.  But at some point when tempers aren't so hot I'd like somebody to make the case that Phaneuf is THE guy to helm this team to -- well I won't even say a Cup, to be more realistic, to lead the team to being a real contender.  That's what's at stake with a long-term contract with him.
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I just think it's an impossible argument to make in either the for or against.  But I made my case above as to how I think his season has gone considering the position Carlyle has put him in.
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Hooray,  a goal.

I don't know why you say a case can't be made for or against.  Of course it can.  That's exactly what GMs do.
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I don't know the reasons GMs get each player, but I don't see how you can argue with any level of certainty whether a certain player can be "built" around or not.  The criteria will be different for every person and seems like it would involve a lot of gut feeling.  Otherwise it's a purely statistical/scouting argument, which to me doesn't answer the original question anyways.
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No, it's not just a gut feeling.  You know the strengths and weaknesses of each player.  Some players it's obvious you want to build around -- the real superstars.  Phaneuf is not that, but that's not the reason I wouldn't re-sign him.  I'd like to see the whole team and the D built around speed, around Rielly and Gardiner, supported by a guy like Gunnarsson.  I'd deal Phaneuf and Franson, each a valuable player in trade, and then go about finding complementary pieces for the core 3. 

Of course people may well disagree, but it's not just a gut feeling, it's a reasoned choice.
 
Strangelove said:
Beowulf said:
L K said:
I know I'm watching him more closely than others right now but Clarkson leaks up the ice an awful lot for a guy who is playing "defense".  He's been the last man back into the defensive zone a few times and seems to be the first one going up the ice.
Click to expand...

His defense has never been a strong point for him
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The man is an offensive machine. You can't expect him to do everything well.
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Indeed!
 
Nothing substantial has changed personnel-wise much since the beginning of the season when Bolland and Bozak were healthy, and the Leafs were flirting with second place in the division.

I'd like to think that they'd be capable of playing that well again with the same roster. Or has the team just become awful?
 
Since the Leafs got the 3-1 goal I've got Kulemin outchancing the topline 2-1 on his own (the Phaneuf post was off a great pass from Kulie).
 
You know it's not going well when the best part of the "Delivery of the game" is a highlight of the team's only goal from the previous game...
 
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