Phil Kessel

[Zee]

Cox advocating the Leafs should part with Kessel and move on:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/article/1320739--maple-leafs-must-keep-first-pick-deal-phil-kessel-cox

I think his logic is kind of flawed with his main point really about (paraphrasing) Nonis ridding the team of the result of this bad trade that Burke made and comparing Kessel to what Vernon Wells was to the Jays. 

His point about Kessel's value is good, although if he doesn't snap the scoring slump soon (he will) it could be hurt a bit. 

I don't know what to think... I can see points on both sides of the argument.  The most central point to that argument being that Kessel isn't a prototypical Carlyle type player and long-term I can see some challenges there.

Kessel through no fault of his own will always be judged by what Seguin, Hamilton and Knight end up doing.  The fact that Seguin and Hamilton look like great players already just makes the deal look worse.  They'll always be the "thank you Kessel" chants in Boston anytime one of the guys he was dealt for scores, they'll always be the talk that Kessel is one dimensional and should have never been acquired by the Burke.  Really it's unfair to him, but it is what it is.  He's a quiet guy, goes about his job and scores goals.  He's the type of sniper you add to a contending team that's filled with great players, he compliments the workhorses of a team and adds that speedy scoring winger element.  He's basically wasted on the Leafs right now, the team isn't a contender and won't be anytime soon.  Maybe when he's 29-30 the Leafs will be in that position, who knows, but will Kessel want to stick it out until then?  I really worry he'll want to leave on the UFA market next year, so it might make sense for Nonis to look for a deal THIS year whent he prices will be much higher.  I can see a contending team giving up pieces of the future to acquire him at the deadline. 

If the Leafs are out of the playoff picture by the deadline, Nonis should seriously consider moving Kessel for young prospects and picks.  We've all seen deadline day deals where a big name scorer goes one way, and 2-3 pieces go back the other way.  You may hate Cox, but he could be right on the mark with this call.

 

[Corn Flake]

I really worry he'll want to leave on the UFA market next year, so it might make sense for Nonis to look for a deal THIS year whent he prices will be much higher.  I can see a contending team giving up pieces of the future to acquire him at the deadline. 

If the Leafs are out of the playoff picture by the deadline, Nonis should seriously consider moving Kessel for young prospects and picks.  We've all seen deadline day deals where a big name scorer goes one way, and 2-3 pieces go back the other way.  You may hate Cox, but he could be right on the mark with this call.

I don't hate Cox... I just disagree with him an awful lot.  In this case, like you said, he could be right. I just wanted to throw it out there and see what everyone thought.

For some of the reasons you suggested I would be inclined to move him.  Of course it all depends on the return and what Nonis can do in the off season.  His age when this team is legit again, his contract situation coming up and whether he will stay, the amount it will cost to keep him if he does stay puts him in that immovable object price range.

I like Kessel as a player, I like what he brings and is a PPG guy with even one guy on his line who can keep up. Unfortunately he has lost that guy already this year so it's not looking good for the production. 

 

[Justin]

The whole concept of what Cox is saying is idiotic, let alone the individual points he brings up to support his argument.

"...in the early days of the shortened 2012-13 season it appears he may be poised to struggle through his most difficult season in a Leaf uniform yet. Kessel appears ill-conditioned, isolated, troubled or simply massively unlucky, or some combination of those."

The guy doesn't score a goal for 5 games and you're ready to ship him out of town? We know Kessel is a streaky player, he's always been this way. He'll score his first goal at some point and then have 6 points in 4 games. Cox knows this, he's just being a d*ck writing off Kessel after 5 games.

"Personality-wise, this just hasn?t been a fit. Like Andrea Bargnani, he could be a nice secondary piece on a good team. On a young, struggling team, however, he can?t be the front man."

The key difference is Bargnani actually sucks and Kessel was 6th in the NHL in points last season. Also, it isn't Kessel's fault he's the "front man." What a great solution to the problem, trade away the "nice secondary piece" on a team that doesn't even have a so-called "front man."

"At a $5.4 million cap hit ($5.1 million in real money this season), he?s affordable given his stats and goal-scoring ability. At $7 million, or $8 million, it will be much different. And that?s what he?ll be able to demand. Moreover, the Leafs don?t want to lose him for nothing as an unrestricted free agent."

So I guess ALL UFA's should be traded a full season-and-a-half before free agency then? The Leafs aren't the Coyotes, we can afford to re-sign our players.

---

The rest of the article is just too much drivel for me to comment on. Kessel isn't a good player in his 30's like Iginla with the Flames who we could trade away to "speed up" the rebuilding process. Kessel is 25, entering his prime, and part of the future in Toronto. I knew this was going to happen - the Leafs lose a couple of games and the idiot media attacks our best player. As if Kessel's the problem, not the lack of #1 centre, starting goalie, or stud defenseman. You knew this article was coming, and OF COURSE it had to be Cox writing it.

 

[Zee]

The whole concept of what Cox is saying is idiotic, let alone the individual points he brings up to support his argument.

"...in the early days of the shortened 2012-13 season it appears he may be poised to struggle through his most difficult season in a Leaf uniform yet. Kessel appears ill-conditioned, isolated, troubled or simply massively unlucky, or some combination of those."

The guy doesn't score a goal for 5 games and you're ready to ship him out of town? We know Kessel is a streaky player, he's always been this way. He'll score his first goal at some point and then have 6 points in 4 games. Cox knows this, he's just being a d*ck writing off Kessel after 5 games.

"Personality-wise, this just hasn?t been a fit. Like Andrea Bargnani, he could be a nice secondary piece on a good team. On a young, struggling team, however, he can?t be the front man."

The key difference is Bargnani actually sucks and Kessel was 6th in the NHL in points last season. Also, it isn't Kessel's fault he's the "front man." What a great solution to the problem, trade away the "nice secondary piece" on a team that doesn't even have a so-called "front man."

"At a $5.4 million cap hit ($5.1 million in real money this season), he?s affordable given his stats and goal-scoring ability. At $7 million, or $8 million, it will be much different. And that?s what he?ll be able to demand. Moreover, the Leafs don?t want to lose him for nothing as an unrestricted free agent."

So I guess ALL UFA's should be traded a full season-and-a-half before free agency then? The Leafs aren't the Coyotes, we can afford to re-sign our players.

---

The rest of the article is just too much drivel for me to comment on. Kessel isn't a good player in his 30's like Iginla with the Flames who we could trade away to "speed up" the rebuilding process. Kessel is 25, entering his prime, and part of the future in Toronto. I knew this was going to happen - the Leafs lose a couple of games and the idiot media attacks our best player. As if Kessel's the problem, not the lack of #1 centre, starting goalie, or stud defenseman. You knew this article was coming, and OF COURSE it had to be Cox writing it.

Cox may be right about trading Kessel even though his points are off the mark.  What it comes down to is Kessel himself.  Nonis has to determine if Kessel actually WANTS to stay in Toronto long term.  If they get an indication that he'd rather go someplace else it's Nonis's duty to ship him out and get as much back as he can.

 

[Kin]

They'll always be the "thank you Kessel" chants in Boston anytime one of the guys he was dealt for scores, they'll always be the talk that Kessel is one dimensional and should have never been acquired by the Burke.

I think the problem with Kessel, in kind of a funny way, is becoming more pronounced the better he gets. Because he's a little on the one-dimensional side when that one dimension isn't working he's not contributing a ton to the club. On the other hand, because that one dimension facilitating the scoring of a lot of goals by himself and others, when he's on he's contributing a lot to the team.

The problem that leaves the club with, and it does sort of lend itself to Cox's argument, is that those five and six or seven game stretches where Kessel is a dud is just burying their ability to be consistently competitive and in a playoff hunt. On the other hand, when he's on he's good enough to almost keep the Leafs out of the basement which hurts their ability to add elite level talent.

I think I agree with the consensus in that I have mixed feelings about trading Kessel but unless something happens in the near future that shows that the Leafs are capable of winning consistently when he's not scoring I think it's something that at the very least needs to be considered.

 

[Zee]

They'll always be the "thank you Kessel" chants in Boston anytime one of the guys he was dealt for scores, they'll always be the talk that Kessel is one dimensional and should have never been acquired by the Burke.

I think the problem with Kessel, in kind of a funny way, is becoming more pronounced the better he gets. Because he's a little on the one-dimensional side when that one dimension isn't working he's not contributing a ton to the club. On the other hand, because that one dimension facilitating the scoring of a lot of goals by himself and others, when he's on he's contributing a lot to the team.

The problem that leaves the club with, and it does sort of lend itself to Cox's argument, is that those five and six or seven game stretches where Kessel is a dud is just burying their ability to be consistently competitive and in a playoff hunt. On the other hand, when he's on he's good enough to almost keep the Leafs out of the basement which hurts their ability to add elite level talent.

I think I agree with the consensus in that I have mixed feelings about trading Kessel but unless something happens in the near future that shows that the Leafs are capable of winning consistently when he's not scoring I think it's something that at the very least needs to be considered.

I really don't envy Nonis right now.  He has some tough decisions going forward. 

 

[Champ Kind]

What's inetresting to me about this discussion is that I see merit in all the different viewpoints on Kessel.  I can see how some people like, I can see how some people don't (although his offensive production can't be argued).  I can see why he should be a key building block moving forward and I can see why he should be moved. 

Personally, his talent is wasted on the Leafs right now.  This is not a view on tanking the season, but rather re-equiping the team with something it can use better or more.  I'm not sure exactly what Kessel's value might be, but if there was a deal with a return like what the Flyers got for Richards, I'd seriously, seriously consider it.

 

[Jalili]

I'd rather see the Leafs re-sign Kessel than trade him...  The reason being that I think the parts you'll get in a return for Kessel are unlikely to be as good as Kessel is.

Late 1st round picks & quality but not chip prospects is what we're likely looking at as a return.

On the other hand I definitely see the argument behind trading him.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Kessel would look AWESOME on Crosby's wing.

 

[bustaheims]

Trading Kessel is something that only becomes something with serious potential if either he's not willing to sign an extension before by the 2014 trade deadline or Nonis decides to go the "bare bones" rebuild route. Outside of that, it would take a significant overpayment coming the Leafs' way for it to be really considered.

 

[Zee]

Kessel would look AWESOME on Crosby's wing.

Franson for Crosby?

 

[Jalili]

Kessel would look AWESOME on Crosby's wing.

Their top 2 lines would slaughter the rest of the league.

 

[Can8899]

If this is something that takes place, what is a reasonable return?  Obviously we won't get back what we gave but he has some value.

If the return is reasonable, I wouldn't be opposed to trading him.  I personally don't think Kessel is the right fit for this team.  I agree with the idea that Kessel is a secondary piece and not a front man and through no fault of his own, Kessel has been thrust into the front man position.

 

[Kin]

If this is something that takes place, what is a reasonable return?  Obviously we won't get back what we gave but he has some value.

I think that what you'd be looking for ideally is something that, as CK said, sort of resembles the Richards trade from Philadelphia where a team that was recently bad enough to draft fairly high has turned into a contender and may have some high level draft picks available as they make a push.

Minnesota might be a good candidate for that. Or Winnipeg if their good start holds out.

 

[TML fan]

Can someone explain to me what qualifies as a secondary piece and what qualifies as a front man?

 

[Kin]

Can someone explain to me what qualifies as a secondary piece and what qualifies as a front man?

Potter Stewart could.

 

[TML fan]

Can someone explain to me what qualifies as a secondary piece and what qualifies as a front man?

Potter Stewart could.

Do you have his email address?

 

[Can8899]

Can someone explain to me what qualifies as a secondary piece and what qualifies as a front man?

Mats Sundin and Alex Mogilny.

Mats was the face of the franchise and proved it day in and day out whether on the ice or with the Media/community. He was the cornerstone of the franchise.

Alex showed up to the rink, did his job and went home.

It's tough for me to explain I guess but it's more a personality type than a skill set if that makes sense (in my opinion anyway).

 

[TML fan]

Can someone explain to me what qualifies as a secondary piece and what qualifies as a front man?

Mats Sundin and Alex Mogilny.

Mats was the face of the franchise and proved it day in and day out whether on the ice or with the Media/community. He was the cornerstone of the franchise.

Alex showed up to the rink, did his job and went home.

It's tough for me to explain I guess but it's more a personality type than a skill set if that makes sense (in my opinion anyway).

So that person doesn't necessarily have to be the best player on the team?

 

[Can8899]

Can someone explain to me what qualifies as a secondary piece and what qualifies as a front man?

Mats Sundin and Alex Mogilny.

Mats was the face of the franchise and proved it day in and day out whether on the ice or with the Media/community. He was the cornerstone of the franchise.

Alex showed up to the rink, did his job and went home.

It's tough for me to explain I guess but it's more a personality type than a skill set if that makes sense (in my opinion anyway).

So that person doesn't necessarily have to be the best player on the team?

Using my "definition" I guess no but typically that type of player is at or near the top of the depth chart.