Phil Kessel

[Kin]

I get what you're saying, but in reality, very little is in the Leafs control. They cant control which pick they will get at the draft. They cant control when players decide they want out. They cant control which teams to trade with, etc, etc....

I disagree because you'll notice what I said is that the course of action is under their control. Saying that specific outcomes aren't entirely within their control doesn't really negate that because the Leafs can still set that course.

They can't decide that they want the #1 pick instead of the #2, no, but they can decide that their goal is to build via the draft a la Pittsburgh or Edmonton. They can decide to trade and sign players in service of that goal.

Choosing a course, to further the metaphor, doesn't mean just setting a bearing and then going for drinks. You still have to deal with the problems that come your way and, yeah, there is still an aspect outside of your control but the Leafs absolutely can decide on where they want to go and how they want to get there.

 

[bustaheims]

Hey look if it was ten I would be worried. but 8 thats nothing in a good rebuild. ;D

And, if/when it becomes a good rebuild, many of us won't worry about it either.

 

[nutman]

ok too change things I will say Kessel gets his first tonight.

 

[nutman]

Hey look if it was ten I would be worried. but 8 thats nothing in a good rebuild. ;D

And, if/when it becomes a good rebuild, many of us won't worry about it either.

You will still worry and you know it.

 

[TML fan]

I get what you're saying, but in reality, very little is in the Leafs control. They cant control which pick they will get at the draft. They cant control when players decide they want out. They cant control which teams to trade with, etc, etc....

I disagree because you'll notice what I said is that the course of action is under their control. Saying that specific outcomes aren't entirely within their control doesn't really negate that because the Leafs can still set that course.

They can't decide that they want the #1 pick instead of the #2, no, but they can decide that their goal is to build via the draft a la Pittsburgh or Edmonton. They can decide to trade and sign players in service of that goal.

Choosing a course, to further the metaphor, doesn't mean just setting a bearing and then going for drinks. You still have to deal with the problems that come your way and, yeah, there is still an aspect outside of your control but the Leafs absolutely can decide on where they want to go and how they want to get there.

Isn't that what they did though?

 

[bustaheims]

You will still worry and you know it.

No. I know quite the opposite. If I felt the team had a clear direction and was navigating in that direction successfully, I'd be absolutely on board with it. That's just not the case right now.

 

[Kin]

Isn't that what they did though?

I am pretty sure Brian Burke replied with an emphatic negative when asked about rebuilding a la Pittsburgh although we may have to wait until RedLeaf posts again to confirm.

 

[nutman]

You will still worry and you know it.

No. I know quite the opposite. If I felt the team had a clear direction and was navigating in that direction successfully, I'd be absolutely on board with it. That's just not the case right now.

To say they have no direction is just hogwash, they are moving in a good direction and although slow you can see it. stop being so negative.

 

[TML fan]

Isn't that what they did though?

I am pretty sure Brian Burke replied with an emphatic negative when asked about rebuilding a la Pittsburgh although we may have to wait until RedLeaf posts again to confirm.

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the last thing you said, about deciding where they want to go and how they want to get there. Did they not do that?

 

[Kin]

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the last thing you said, about deciding where they want to go and how they want to get there. Did they not do that?

In the context of my metaphor? Not really. I don't think they ever actually had much of a plan for acquiring the players they needed.

 

[bustaheims]

To say they have no direction is just hogwash, they are moving in a good direction and although slow you can see it. stop being so negative.

I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic, because, quite frankly, whichever direction they're heading right now, they're not making it clear or doing it particularly well. I mean, if they're rebuilding, then signing Lupul to a long-term deal is a curious move, since, for a rebuilding team, he's much more valuable as a trade deadline rental than as a long-term piece since his contract will be close to expiring by the time the team is ready and he'll likely be past his prime by then. If they're building thinking they're on the upswing . . . well, they've done a pretty poor job in that regard. The direction their heading has them stuck somewhere in between rebuilding and building. They're pulling themselves in two directions and, consequently, pretty much heading nowhere.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Apologies if this was posted, I may have missed a page or two, but Friedman is often a voice of reason in the media:

25. Whatever the Maple Leafs decide to do with Phil Kessel, the one reason I'd be wary of trading him is he is perfectly suited to playing in Toronto. He doesn't pay attention to anything: the newspapers, sports radio, etc. It's hard to insulate yourself from that intensity. It's why Toronto and Montreal were ready to throw millions at the Sedins, who are similarly unbothered. Those guys can be hard to find.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2013/01/30-thoughts-pk-subban-eyes-bigger-payday-down-the-road.html

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Holy christ this thread hurts my head.










Also, the fact that you guys want to trade a 25 year old sniper in the hopes that you get a draft pick and some prospects in the hopes that said draft pick and said prospects turn out is a tad curious to me.....not nutman curious, but curious none the less.




Go ahead nik, tell me why I'm wrong.

 

[Britishbulldog]

They're pulling themselves in two directions and, consequently, pretty much heading nowhere.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Phil Kessel - 6.6% of his team's goals in the previous 3 seasons
Ovechkin - 6.3% of his team's goals
Stamkos - 4.48% of his team's goals

Now this points directly to Kessel lacking a supporting cast and having to do much of the work/goalscoring himself.

I am not saying that the previous 8 years of direction was necessarily the correct one, but I'm not willing to state that trading a 25 year old sniper who scores 7% of your goals is also the correct direction as well.
I would much rather see a Lupul moved, or a Phaneuf as I think the come back would be similar and I think both are less important cogs in the machine.

 

[Redleaf]

I get what you're saying, but in reality, very little is in the Leafs control. They cant control which pick they will get at the draft. They cant control when players decide they want out. They cant control which teams to trade with, etc, etc....

I disagree because you'll notice what I said is that the course of action is under their control. Saying that specific outcomes aren't entirely within their control doesn't really negate that because the Leafs can still set that course.

They can't decide that they want the #1 pick instead of the #2, no, but they can decide that their goal is to build via the draft a la Pittsburgh or Edmonton. They can decide to trade and sign players in service of that goal.

Choosing a course, to further the metaphor, doesn't mean just setting a bearing and then going for drinks. You still have to deal with the problems that come your way and, yeah, there is still an aspect outside of your control but the Leafs absolutely can decide on where they want to go and how they want to get there.

A team can implement a blueprint, but that doesnt mean it controls the process moving forward.

 

[TML fan]

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the last thing you said, about deciding where they want to go and how they want to get there. Did they not do that?

In the context of my metaphor? Not really. I don't think they ever actually had much of a plan for acquiring the players they needed.

Possibly, but perhaps grabbing that elite talent right away was never their objective? It's clear they wanted to make the playoffs as soon as possible, but a lot of things didn't go their way. They never got the goaltending they needed, and most of the guys they got in never lived up to expectations. That is a failure and I won't dispute that.

That said, it doesn't mean they didn't have direction. Perhaps the goal was to restock the farm system and improve their developmental programs while attempting to be a playoff team? Maybe the plan was to take a few runs while rebuilding the system, a system that may not produce elite talent right away, but that will keep serviceable, if not better than average NHL players flowing through the ranks. Then, when they are ready, move out the older existing roster, draft high and get that top ranked prospect everyone is looking for.

Remember, the goal was to build a sustainable winner, not a flash in the pan. Perhaps the Leafs knew they couldn't do that until they had a constant stream of well developed young players coming through the system?

With the re-signing of Lupul, it seems to be a likely scenario and something that Nonis believes in and is willing to stay the course.

 

[nutman]

To say they have no direction is just hogwash, they are moving in a good direction and although slow you can see it. stop being so negative.

I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic, because, quite frankly, whichever direction they're heading right now, they're not making it clear or doing it particularly well. I mean, if they're rebuilding, then signing Lupul to a long-term deal is a curious move, since, for a rebuilding team, he's much more valuable as a trade deadline rental than as a long-term piece since his contract will be close to expiring by the time the team is ready and he'll likely be past his prime by then. If they're building thinking they're on the upswing . . . well, they've done a pretty poor job in that regard. The direction their heading has them stuck somewhere in between rebuilding and building. They're pulling themselves in two directions and, consequently, pretty much heading nowhere.

We are moving forward much better now then in the last ten yrs. we have some very good parts on forward, and our defence is young, but looks to be full of up and comming players. our system has some very good goalies, but our center is suspect big time. now that said we are going in the right direction, just not as fast as we would like. just hang in there, this is the best direction wise we have headed in years and it will pay off, and yes we will have growing pains, but we will be better for it.

 

[Jalili]

To say they have no direction is just hogwash, they are moving in a good direction and although slow you can see it. stop being so negative.

I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic, because, quite frankly, whichever direction they're heading right now, they're not making it clear or doing it particularly well. I mean, if they're rebuilding, then signing Lupul to a long-term deal is a curious move, since, for a rebuilding team, he's much more valuable as a trade deadline rental than as a long-term piece since his contract will be close to expiring by the time the team is ready and he'll likely be past his prime by then. If they're building thinking they're on the upswing . . . well, they've done a pretty poor job in that regard. The direction their heading has them stuck somewhere in between rebuilding and building. They're pulling themselves in two directions and, consequently, pretty much heading nowhere.

We are moving forward much better now then in the last ten yrs. we have some very good parts on forward, and our defence is young, but looks to be full of up and comming players. our system has some very good goalies, but our center is suspect big time. now that said we are going in the right direction, just not as fast as we would like. just hang in there, this is the best direction wise we have headed in years and it will pay off, and yes we will have growing pains, but we will be better for it.

Nope, that would be back around 2008 and 2009 before Burke made a mess of things.

 

[Highlander]

Ok we are speaking of Centres, why not give Kadri a shot with Phil and see if there is any love there.