Potential Buyouts

[Kin]

The PA was also concerned that allowing buyouts now would leave bought out players without enough time to find contracts.

Right. I'm under no illusions as to the fact that the language of the clause was jointly arrived at.

 

[Beowulf]

Am I missing something here? If they're paying the guy anyway and his cap hit counts, I don't see the harm in letting him at least show up to training camp and see what he's got. It's not like the habs are stocked with elite forwards that Gomez wouldn't have a chance to contribute. I mean I know it's a long shot that he can still be useful, but what's the harm?

If he gets injured and isn't declared fit to play by the time the buyout window closes, he can't be bought out.

Ah okay, knew it had to be something since no one else had brought it up. Thanks busta

 

[bustaheims]

Right. I'm under no illusions as to the fact that the language of the clause was jointly arrived at.

I know. I was just adding that info.

 

[TML fan]

It's not needlessly restrictive. It's in place so players don't suffer from buyouts because of situations beyond their control.

So Scott Gomez's decline as a player was within his control? He's choosing not to be as good as he could be?

Haha whatever man.

 

[cw]

Gomez could have played better and not been bought out at all, or at least the decision could have been made later on.

Nobody is taking issue with Gomez being bought out or the existence of buy-outs.

No, but you're blaming the league for something that is Scott Gomez's problem. His poor performance is why he's being bought out. The league rules are in place to help team be salary cap compliant, not to give teams a free pass to get rid of problem contracts. If he didn't suck, he would be playing.

It's been said by a number of folks that Wade Redden has been playing well enough to play in the NHL. But he's in the same boat as Gomez. The reason is that the level of his play has fallen well below the level of his pay. Paying $6-7 mil to a 5/6 dman or a 4th line center is too detrimental to the ability of a GM to construct a competitive roster in this cap system.

I see both players somewhat as victims of this cap system. They both could probably help a team in a lesser role but NHL fans will never see them because of the mismatch of their current contract to their current ability to perform in this league.

 

[Derk]

Better yet, can the Habs buy him out still if he retires, or will they be forced to eat his cap hit until his contract is up?

I believe he would fall under the cap recapture formula, but it would only be for ~$1M split over 2 seasons if he retired right now. If he retires after this season, he'd come off the cap completely.

I am not too clear on what you are talking about here, probably because I haven't followed this as closely. Is that how retirements are going to be handled overall when there is still contract remaining? Would Luongo be different (and other back diving contracts)? From what I heard on the radio, it sounded like if Luongo retires before the end of his contract, the team is on the hook for the cap hit until the contract is up - I had assumed that all retirements would be handled the same way.

 

[louisstamos]

Here's a weird question...under the international agreement, can Gomez or Redden go play in Russia or Europe at the moment (especially with a bunch of spots that just opened up)?  They're technically under contract to NHL teams, but they've essentially been barred from joining the team, would they permitted to go play elsewhere?

I'm assuming under the new CBA rules they'd count towards the cap anyways...

 

[TML fan]

I don't think they're allowed to play hockey at all. They are still under contract. If they were to play somewhere else I think it's a breach of contract.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Here's a weird question...under the international agreement, can Gomez or Redden go play in Russia or Europe at the moment (especially with a bunch of spots that just opened up)?  They're technically under contract to NHL teams, but they've essentially been barred from joining the team, would they permitted to go play elsewhere?

I'm assuming under the new CBA rules they'd count towards the cap anyways...

If they leave on their own the can be suspended by the team.

However, should an international team show interest, a loan agreement could be arranged allowing them to go play and their salary does come of the cap. (I think)

From the players perspective this might mean forfeiting money owed on the NHL deal for a lesser deal abroad and an opportunity to play.

I'm not certain but I think that's the situation.

 

[bustaheims]

I am not too clear on what you are talking about here, probably because I haven't followed this as closely. Is that how retirements are going to be handled overall when there is still contract remaining? Would Luongo be different (and other back diving contracts)? From what I heard on the radio, it sounded like if Luongo retires before the end of his contract, the team is on the hook for the cap hit until the contract is up - I had assumed that all retirements would be handled the same way.

It is for players on contracts that are 6+ seasons long (at least, as I understand it - it may turn out to actually 6+ seasons remaining as of the start of this season). If the contract paid out more in real dollars than it counted against the cap, the team that benefited from that has to pay back the difference against the cap (unless they traded the contract before the new CBA was signed - i.e. Richards/Carter/etc.).

 

[bustaheims]

If they leave on their own the can be suspended by the team.

However, should an international team show interest, a loan agreement could be arranged allowing them to go play and their salary does come of the cap. (I think)

Under the new rules, everything over the league minimum + $375K ($900K this season) counts against the cap if a player under contract plays in another professional league.

 

[Leafaholic99]

Didn't Zherdev or some other player go play in Russia, with consent from their NHL team?

 

[Captain Canuck]

I don't think they're allowed to play hockey at all. They are still under contract. If they were to play somewhere else I think it's a breach of contract.

This is how I understand it as well because the whole reason Montreal doesn't want Gomez playing is that if he gets hurt they can't buy him out. If you can't buy out injured players then there is no way these guys are playing hockey anywhere this season as its too risky for their NHL clubs.

 

[louisstamos]

I don't think they're allowed to play hockey at all. They are still under contract. If they were to play somewhere else I think it's a breach of contract.

This is how I understand it as well because the whole reason Montreal doesn't want Gomez playing is that if he gets hurt they can't buy him out. If you can't buy out injured players then there is no way these guys are playing hockey anywhere this season as its too risky for their NHL clubs.

But I think that only applies to injuries sustained while playing with either the Bulldogs or the Canadiens.  He could, technically speaking, injure himself just as easily working out at home...

 

[TML fan]

I don't think they're allowed to play hockey at all. They are still under contract. If they were to play somewhere else I think it's a breach of contract.

This is how I understand it as well because the whole reason Montreal doesn't want Gomez playing is that if he gets hurt they can't buy him out. If you can't buy out injured players then there is no way these guys are playing hockey anywhere this season as its too risky for their NHL clubs.

But I think that only applies to injuries sustained while playing with either the Bulldogs or the Canadiens.  He could, technically speaking, injure himself just as easily working out at home...

I'm sure they would count whatever team Gomez was loaned to as an affiliate. I think the rules would still apply. Furthermore, I am sure there is some type of clause in their contract that prohibits extracurricular activities during the season, so for example Gomez wouldn't even be allowed to participate in a recreational league or play another sport.

Gomez would still be allowed to work out, and yes he could get injured, but he could also get injured sneezing or falling out of bed. The chances of him getting hurt are lessened if he doesn't play.

 

[bustaheims]

But I think that only applies to injuries sustained while playing with either the Bulldogs or the Canadiens.  He could, technically speaking, injure himself just as easily working out at home...

I'm pretty sure it applies to any hockey related injury.

 

[Corn Flake]

Gomez would still be allowed to work out, and yes he could get injured, but he could also get injured sneezing or falling out of bed. The chances of him getting hurt are lessened if he doesn't play.

Or by eating delicious pancackes.

 

[Zee]

What's the exact thing they did with Gomez?  They told him he can't play?  I don't understand, what if he wants to play?  Doesn't he have a grievance he can file, he's under contract, has a no-movement clause or something, how can they tell him "sorry you can't play"?

 

[bustaheims]

What's the exact thing they did with Gomez?  They told him he can't play?  I don't understand, what if he wants to play?  Doesn't he have a grievance he can file, he's under contract, has a no-movement clause or something, how can they tell him "sorry you can't play"?

They've basically made him a healthy scratch for the entire season, which, as long as they still pay him and give him access to the team's facilities, is all they need to do to honour his contract.

 

[Zee]

What's the exact thing they did with Gomez?  They told him he can't play?  I don't understand, what if he wants to play?  Doesn't he have a grievance he can file, he's under contract, has a no-movement clause or something, how can they tell him "sorry you can't play"?

They've basically made him a healthy scratch for the entire season, which, as long as they still pay him and give him access to the team's facilities, is all they need to do to honour his contract.

Cold hearted bastards.