Predators @ Leafs - Nov. 18th, 7:30pm - TSN, TSN 1050

[GhostofPotvin29]

Oh come on, busta. 

Anyhow, if there's no such thing as centerpiece, then you shouldn't have any objection to trading him.

No, you come on. Defence is, and has always been, a team wide responsibility. Phaneuf isn't so bad that he's dragging them down. They're down there as a unit.

And, I have objections to moving anyone out when it's being done to make them a scapegoat for a much larger issue.

It's funny, coming into this gamePhaneuf has 2nd most 5on5 TOI among Leafs D and the 2nd lowest GA per 60 minutes of all D on the team.  Coming into this game he had been on the ice at 5 on 5 for 14 goals for and 11 against.

He's apparently terrible but somehow plays a ton of minutes and almost no other D on the team is on for less GA per 60 minutes of ice.

Here's another stat to feed into your comp: total number of playoff series won since Phaneuf's arrival =

I know screw me for actually trying to back up my position with stats and trying to provide proof for why I think the way I do.

 

[Strangelove]

I never said it wasn't.  But by the same token, to claim that there's no such things as a centerpiece is just you being disingenuous.  Like Lidstrom wasn't a centerpiece?

Anyway, my thinking is that if the whole D is as bad as ours, and one guy has been at the head of it so long, then it's time for a major change starting at the top.

No. Lidstrom had guys like Rafalski, Coffey, Chelios, Kronwall, Schneider, etc. to work with over the years. Detroit was a team that really understood that no one player makes a defence. He may have been their best defenceman, but he wasn't the centrepiece, because they really didn't have one. Teams that look to guys as centrepieces are teams that don't go far. Teams that build their defence knowing better do.

And, starting with Phaneuf isn't starting at the top. The top is Nonis and Carlyle. Starting anywhere else is starting in the middle.

Chara was the defensive centerpiece on the Boston teams that won the cup and there wouldn't be a player in the league who would suggest otherwise. The fact that they probably had more than one defender who was better than Phaneuf is now doesn't mean that having a "centerpiece" or best defenseman in your defensive core isn't important.  Phaneuf isn't nearly good enough to be playing that role, and yet he's paid like he is.

 

[bustaheims]

Chara was the defensive centerpiece on the Boston teams that won the cup and there wouldn't be a player in the league who would suggest otherwise. The fact that they probably had more than one defender who was better than Phaneuf is now doesn't mean that having a "centerpiece" or best defenseman in your defensive core isn't important.  Phaneuf isn't nearly good enough to be playing that role, and yet he's paid like he is.

Without Seidenberg, etc. as part of the defensive unit, that team doesn't win anything. Again, he was their best defenceman, but their defence was a unit that included all of their forwards committing to it, not one guy as a centrepiece surrounded by support players.

 

[freer]

Honestly dont understand way dropped that pass

 

[LittleHockeyFan]

 

[Stickytape]

How the hell do you fix this?

 

[lamajama]

Well second period has been good for TO.

Reimer has been steady. With no rebounds.

Nice jinx....

 

[ZBBM]

Oh come on, busta. 

Anyhow, if there's no such thing as centerpiece, then you shouldn't have any objection to trading him.

No, you come on. Defence is, and has always been, a team wide responsibility. Phaneuf isn't so bad that he's dragging them down. They're down there as a unit.

And, I have objections to moving anyone out when it's being done to make them a scapegoat for a much larger issue.

It's funny, coming into this gamePhaneuf has 2nd most 5on5 TOI among Leafs D and the 2nd lowest GA per 60 minutes of all D on the team.  Coming into this game he had been on the ice at 5 on 5 for 14 goals for and 11 against.

He's apparently terrible but somehow plays a ton of minutes and almost no other D on the team is on for less GA per 60 minutes of ice.

Here's another stat to feed into your comp: total number of playoff series won since Phaneuf's arrival =

I know screw me for actually trying to back up my position with stats and trying to provide proof for why I think the way I do.

It's nothing of the kind, man.  I'm all in favor of advanced stats, but they get trumped by the only "advanced" stat that really matters -- advancing in the playoffs.

 

[Strangelove]

Chara was the defensive centerpiece on the Boston teams that won the cup and there wouldn't be a player in the league who would suggest otherwise. The fact that they probably had more than one defender who was better than Phaneuf is now doesn't mean that having a "centerpiece" or best defenseman in your defensive core isn't important.  Phaneuf isn't nearly good enough to be playing that role, and yet he's paid like he is.

Without Seidenberg, etc. as part of the defensive unit, that team doesn't win anything. Again, he was their best defenceman, but their defence was a unit that included all of their forwards committing to it, not one guy as a centrepiece surrounded by support players.

I agree. But Phaneuf isn't good enough to be playing the "Chara role" on the Leafs, regardless of his surrounding cast.

 

[TML fan]

Well, I managed to actually fall asleep at an NHL hockey game. The Leafs are so good.

 

[Arn]

Cheerio Randy

 

[freer]

I retract my last statement. Not a good period

 

[bustaheims]

I agree. But Phaneuf isn't good enough to be playing the "Chara role" on the Leafs, regardless of his surrounding cast.

Maybe, but the problem is still the surrounding cast. A championship calibre team doesn't need to have a guy play that kind of role. They play defence as a group and have a number of individuals that can step up. Right now, the Leafs are absolutely not playing defence as a group, so, the rest of it is pretty moot.

 

[TML fan]

How the hell do you fix this?

Lots and lots of C4.

 

[lamajama]

How the hell do you fix this?

I think RC is gone soon then Nonis to follow in the summer. Minor player moves is all that can and will be done during the season. Even if Shanahan wants to blow it up it just can't be done as the ones that attract any interest are the ones you'd probably want to keep.

 

[Tigger]

Chara was the defensive centerpiece on the Boston teams that won the cup and there wouldn't be a player in the league who would suggest otherwise. The fact that they probably had more than one defender who was better than Phaneuf is now doesn't mean that having a "centerpiece" or best defenseman in your defensive core isn't important.  Phaneuf isn't nearly good enough to be playing that role, and yet he's paid like he is.

Without Seidenberg, etc. as part of the defensive unit, that team doesn't win anything. Again, he was their best defenceman, but their defence was a unit that included all of their forwards committing to it, not one guy as a centrepiece surrounded by support players.

I agree. But Phaneuf isn't good enough to be playing the "Chara role" on the Leafs, regardless of his surrounding cast.

I don't think that's the argument here.

 

[Strangelove]

Chara was the defensive centerpiece on the Boston teams that won the cup and there wouldn't be a player in the league who would suggest otherwise. The fact that they probably had more than one defender who was better than Phaneuf is now doesn't mean that having a "centerpiece" or best defenseman in your defensive core isn't important.  Phaneuf isn't nearly good enough to be playing that role, and yet he's paid like he is.

Without Seidenberg, etc. as part of the defensive unit, that team doesn't win anything. Again, he was their best defenceman, but their defence was a unit that included all of their forwards committing to it, not one guy as a centrepiece surrounded by support players.

I agree. But Phaneuf isn't good enough to be playing the "Chara role" on the Leafs, regardless of his surrounding cast.

I don't think that's the argument here.

As I understood it, the argument had to do with whether it's important to have a centerpiece defender to anchor the squad. I think that it is. I think it's clear that Phaneuf is being paid to play that role here, but he's not good enough to do it. (I also happen to think his leadership is a big problem but we're not talking about that now)

 

[ZBBM]

I'd give Polak a lot more minutes.  Worth a try.

 

[azzurri63]

You know I've been a Leaf fan for over 40 years, and some of the Ballard years were painful but I think the last 5 years or so have been just as equally painful. The problem I think is over the last few years management has spent money poorly in regards to filling spots to what I think was to just appease the fans and they haven't worked out. They have never taking the rebuild approach. The Clarkson and Phaneuf signings were horrible. Nonis should've traded Dion last year and they should've started the rebuild and hopefully like I stated the other day landed McDavid or Eichel. The last two games counting tonight are no different than some of the poor efforts we've come accustomed to seeing over the last few years. Make some trades and start the rebuild and that includes getting rid of Nonis and Carlyle.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

If the Leafs re-sign Franson......