R1, G7: Lightning @ Leafs - May 14th, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050

[Stebro]

I don't know what to say really. I feel sorry for the players, the fans, the organization. I was really harsh on Marner etc after the last season. But I feel proud over this team. Marner, Matthews etc have been great, I can't really single any player out. They did pretty much everything right, but still got the wrong result.

I don't think we will see major changes, but maybe Nylander gone? Kerfoot? Keefe? I don't know really. Will Spezza return? I think what the leafs should do is to try to keep as many as they can, and sign a couple of 3rd/4th liners who have won the cup, and get a reliable backup. I don't think they choked this time.

I think that they deserve credit for the way they played, it's just sad to see that they didn't get the result they deserved. I stayed up until 4 am to follow them just like all the other games of the series, despite working the day after, but I love my leafs :'(

I think that the easiest way for the leafs to win game 7 next season is to never play it.

 

[Redleaf]

Agree on all fronts . Nothing else to add really  :-\

 

[Redleaf]

What a bunch of losers!
Played well but no killer instinct.  Can?t say this was a shocker.
But I?m sure next year will be different???sure?just like this year was suppose to be. Just a shitty franchise with a losing culture.

So. I suppose you?re a Leaf fan because you signed up on this site to follow (and not just to be a troll??) . But if they scored the tying goal in the final seconds and won in OT which was entirely plausible, would you be praising them instead? Come on . It?s sports? the nasty BS comments really show your maturity level there le-bo

 

[Guilt Trip]

What a bunch of losers!
Played well but no killer instinct.  Can?t say this was a shocker.
But I?m sure next year will be different???sure?just like this year was suppose to be. Just a shitty franchise with a losing culture.

So. I suppose you?re a Leaf fan because you signed up on this site to follow (and not just to be a troll??) . But if they scored the tying goal in the final seconds and won in OT which was entirely plausible, would you be praising them instead? Come on . It?s sports? the nasty BS comments really show your maturity level there le-bo

He's a troll.... Nothing more.

 

[Bill_Berg]

What a bunch of losers!
Played well but no killer instinct.  Can?t say this was a shocker.
But I?m sure next year will be different???sure?just like this year was suppose to be. Just a shitty franchise with a losing culture.

You're the real loser here.

 

[Bill_Berg]

I think the difficulty is, where do they go from here?  Still in cap hell so cant really upgrade due to financial constraints.  It was much better effort, but this team can?t really be improved in a meaningful way, despite Dubas?s wizardry.

Honestly, I think next year is when Dubas really has to make his bones. Some of his draft picks really have to step up and become big time improvements for the team. Maybe it's Robertson, maybe one of the defensemen but either way, now is when he has to prove that he's putting the analytics to use and finding diamonds in the rough.

And if not, would you say that it is pitchfork and torches time?

My position on change is always going to be the same. If you can make a good case that the replacement will improve things for an actual reason, go nuts. If you're just changing things to change things, I'm generally speaking not on board.

I'm on this train.

 

[rdowdall]

I think the difficulty is, where do they go from here?  Still in cap hell so cant really upgrade due to financial constraints.  It was much better effort, but this team can?t really be improved in a meaningful way, despite Dubas?s wizardry.

Honestly, I think next year is when Dubas really has to make his bones. Some of his draft picks really have to step up and become big time improvements for the team. Maybe it's Robertson, maybe one of the defensemen but either way, now is when he has to prove that he's putting the analytics to use and finding diamonds in the rough.

And if not, would you say that it is pitchfork and torches time?

My position on change is always going to be the same. If you can make a good case that the replacement will improve things for an actual reason, go nuts. If you're just changing things to change things, I'm generally speaking not on board.

Yeah, at this point I don't know if anyone can make that case.  I'm not sure what changes you could make to this team to guarantee a first round series win.

 

[L K]

I don?t think anything can guarantee a first round win.  Jack was fine but ultimately he had an .897 SV% in the playoffs.  Goaltending didn?t lose us the series but it didn?t win it for us either.  This team did not get good goaltending for the majority of the season.  I don?t know where you go to find that.  The organizations inability to develop a goaltender has been a problem. 

We need internal guys to come up and replace some people but aside from maybe Abruzzezze and Robertson I don?t see anyone else who is probably NHL ready.  I like a lot about Robertson but every time he gets called up he looks lost compared to AHL Robertson.  I?m
Worried that he really is too small for the NHL.  The difference between a. Guy like Blackwell who is tiny but is strong and able to fight through guys is really noticeable.  Maybe that?s just an age thing with him but he gets knocked around far too easily.

 

[Zee]

I don?t think anything can guarantee a first round win.  Jack was fine but ultimately he had an .897 SV% in the playoffs.  Goaltending didn?t lose us the series but it didn?t win it for us either.  This team did not get good goaltending for the majority of the season.  I don?t know where you go to find that.  The organizations inability to develop a goaltender has been a problem. 

We need internal guys to come up and replace some people but aside from maybe Abruzzezze and Robertson I don?t see anyone else who is probably NHL ready.  I like a lot about Robertson but every time he gets called up he looks lost compared to AHL Robertson.  I?m
Worried that he really is too small for the NHL.  The difference between a. Guy like Blackwell who is tiny but is strong and able to fight through guys is really noticeable.  Maybe that?s just an age thing with him but he gets knocked around far too easily.

For once in a series the goaltending was even. Vasilevsky's save % was also .897. I have no idea what the Leafs do from here. Different season, different mix of players, same end result. PP let them down in a series again after being #1 in the league all season. 115 points, 60 goal scorer, no idea what it's going to take.

 

[Highlander]

Its really hard to be optimistic right now as I look ahead to next season.
Next year Reilly's salary gets a bump, Campbell will be looking for a big raise, will be tough to try and resign Mikheyev. Not a lot in the prospect pipeline in the way of maiking this team more playpff competent.  Our D is aging and Dubas keeps favouring undersized skill guys in draft.?

So who is Knies, an undersized skill guy?

 

[mr grieves]

I think the difficulty is, where do they go from here?  Still in cap hell so cant really upgrade due to financial constraints.  It was much better effort, but this team can?t really be improved in a meaningful way, despite Dubas?s wizardry.

The PP?s late season wobble carrying over into the postseason and marginally losing the depth match ? but the big guns and goalies fighting to a draw? that?s not a terrible way to lose to Tampa Bay. It?s only miserable / depressing in the wider context.

How do they get better? They?re decidedly constrained until the cap gives them breathing room (its stagnancy leaves the team with an unprecedentedly high share of cap going to the core). Maybe Dubas does just as well finding valuable scrap as he did this year (about as well as I can imagine it going) and a few of his draft picks make the jump.

Barry Trotz is presently unemployed.

If you are tied up with making significant player moves, and you have a coach available who took a perennial Cinderella and got them a Cup ...  sounds like something I'd be interested in.

Of course to do that you'd have to get yourself a new front office, too.  But if you are looking for the lowest cost route to improvement....

I wouldn't want to replace the front office, as I think the current group does as good a job as can be done filling out the cap-constrained roster, but yes--Trotz does seem like the sort of coach that'd benefit this group. But a marginal improvement in the coaching in exchange for losing a management that's built a team capable of franchise-best seasons around 4 forwards consuming half the cap.... I dunno.

And. of course, between the disappointing Caps of the early/mid 2010s and the 2018 Caps, there's more difference than just Barry Trotz... I really think, just as a matter of timing and bad luck, the pandemic cap freeze has had a greater impact on the Leafs than other franchises.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I don?t think anything can guarantee a first round win.  Jack was fine but ultimately he had an .897 SV% in the playoffs.  Goaltending didn?t lose us the series but it didn?t win it for us either.  This team did not get good goaltending for the majority of the season.  I don?t know where you go to find that.  The organizations inability to develop a goaltender has been a problem. 

We need internal guys to come up and replace some people but aside from maybe Abruzzezze and Robertson I don?t see anyone else who is probably NHL ready.  I like a lot about Robertson but every time he gets called up he looks lost compared to AHL Robertson.  I?m
Worried that he really is too small for the NHL.  The difference between a. Guy like Blackwell who is tiny but is strong and able to fight through guys is really noticeable.  Maybe that?s just an age thing with him but he gets knocked around far too easily.

Jack was fine but ultimately didn't get it done but I think he cost us a game. Game 4 was brutal for him and ultimately for the Leafs. You can't give a team like Tampa easy goals like that. He did it again in game 5 but the Leafs managed to comeback and win it and Jack got back in the saddle.
I like him but I think if the ask is over Mrazek type money, he's gone. Leafs need to improve that position.

Robertson will be full time next season as well as Sandin and Liljegren. Leafs need a better 4th line also. I think Spezza is done unfortunately. Let's face it, Keefe didn't even start him game 1. I would resign Gio for cheap if you can.

 

[louisstamos]

I wanted to take my time to post this as I feel like if I did it last night, I would have been overtly emotional, and I think it did me a world of good.  My partner and I had our friends from Hamilton come over to watch the game, and as an emotional roller coaster as it was (things were thrown around after the Tavares non-goal, lol), when they ultimately lost my friend and I were inconsolable - heads hanged, slumped over, etc.  But yet, our partners tried to console us - Tampa's a ridiculously good team, that was nothing to be ashamed of, they might win the cup for a 3rd time, etc.  And that's when it came out - it wasn't really about us; it was just to shut up the doubters.  The trolls on twitter, and the assholes on this forum like Lee-Bo, who make you feel stupid to want to cheer for the Leafs.  The people who when Matthews scored his 60th, just commented "how about you win a round?"  They are 100% bullies, and that why we wanted the Leafs to win more than anything else - just so the bullying would stop.

And then it hit me - as much as the Leafs loss sucks, I got to watch the game with my best friends, and my partner who I love so much, who was willing to console me and talk me out of it when I was at my absolute worst.  I have a wonderful band, great friends, great teammates in my rec sports leagues - life is good overall, and that's the important thing.  If the trolls on this forum and elsewhere need to be "ha ha, I was right, you're all stupid for believing" - if they need that superiority in order to feel good about themselves, I can only imagine how sad and pathetic their personal lives have to be in order to take solace in punching people when they're down.  Even if the Leafs won the cup, they'd find a way to try and bring you down.  They can have solace in their victories - I'll still able to find my own.

Team wise, I don't think it's time to blow anything up, but some tinkering is definitely necessary.  I would be shopping for a 2nd line centre, and not that I think they should (or even can) move Tavares, but I think it's time that he moves to the wing.  I would revisit the J.T. Miller rumors in the off season and see if there's anything there.  Something like Bunting-Matthews-Marner, Tavares-Miller-Nylander would be sweet.  I don't think they can afford Mikheyev, as much as I'd like to see him stay, and I think Holl and Kerfoot need to go - not that they're terrible players, but their salaries can be used in different ways, and both are pending UFAs.  I'd like full time spots on the team for Sandin and Liljegren, and I'd like to take a couple more cracks for Bunting/Kampf/Kase type players for the bottom two lines - some cheap but good depth.  Some quickness, toughness, etc.

Lastly, a little analogy - I always loved hockey, but never played as a kid.  It wasn't until I got my first full-time job that I decided at 25 I was going to buy some equipment and learn to play the game.  I play in two leagues - one an intramural league through my local University, the other the ASHL "beer" league.  I've been playing for 15 years now, and in both leagues, we came close but never won the big one.  We won our division in the ASHL a few times, but never progressed far in the facility tournament.  Likewise in the intramural league, we made it to the championship game 3 years in a row, but never could get over that hump.  And it sucked, because ever since I started playing hockey, I just wanted one championship.  I just wanted to know what it felt like.  Regardless, we'd always come back with the same team with the same guys and give it another crack each and every year - and most importantly, playing hockey with my friends is fun.

Well, this year, our team won our facility in the ASHL!  In the division championship game, we were down 3-1, and yours truly who never even played hockey until he was 25 scored the game tying goal en route to victory.  It was great, and it made all the times that we came close, and all the heartbreaks worth it.

To summarize - hockey isn't life; it's a fun pass time, but there's more important and beautiful things in life.  Try and focus on those.  And one day the Leafs will win - a series, a championship, etc.  And it will be awesome.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Very well said....enjoy the ride both good and bad. Despite the result, it was an awesome season. We're you not entertained? Win or lose, the Leafs will always be my team

 

[ZBBM]

I think the difficulty is, where do they go from here?  Still in cap hell so cant really upgrade due to financial constraints.  It was much better effort, but this team can?t really be improved in a meaningful way, despite Dubas?s wizardry.

The PP?s late season wobble carrying over into the postseason and marginally losing the depth match ? but the big guns and goalies fighting to a draw? that?s not a terrible way to lose to Tampa Bay. It?s only miserable / depressing in the wider context.

How do they get better? They?re decidedly constrained until the cap gives them breathing room (its stagnancy leaves the team with an unprecedentedly high share of cap going to the core). Maybe Dubas does just as well finding valuable scrap as he did this year (about as well as I can imagine it going) and a few of his draft picks make the jump.

Barry Trotz is presently unemployed.

If you are tied up with making significant player moves, and you have a coach available who took a perennial Cinderella and got them a Cup ...  sounds like something I'd be interested in.

Of course to do that you'd have to get yourself a new front office, too.  But if you are looking for the lowest cost route to improvement....

I wouldn't want to replace the front office, as I think the current group does as good a job as can be done filling out the cap-constrained roster, but yes--Trotz does seem like the sort of coach that'd benefit this group. But a marginal improvement in the coaching in exchange for losing a management that's built a team capable of franchise-best seasons around 4 forwards consuming half the cap.... I dunno.

And. of course, between the disappointing Caps of the early/mid 2010s and the 2018 Caps, there's more difference than just Barry Trotz... I really think, just as a matter of timing and bad luck, the pandemic cap freeze has had a greater impact on the Leafs than other franchises.

All points well-taken. I think you are right, the stagnant cap has made Tavares' contract more of an albatross than Dubas bargained for.

I sure would like to see what Trotz could do with this group.

 

[ZBBM]

That was beautiful, Louis, thanks for sharing all those wise thoughts.  And congrats on experiencing that championship feeling!

Posts like these are why I enjoy this site so much.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Hard to argue...that's kind of the way I see it. Tweak it and go again.

https://twitter.com/wyshynski/status/1525661208396845058
https://twitter.com/wyshynski/status/1525662331618861058

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I like a lot about Robertson but every time he gets called up he looks lost compared to AHL Robertson.

I think some of Robertson's struggles mirror how Liljegren struggled in his call-ups prior to this season. Not only were they both maybe brought up a little bit early (worth noting Robertson only turns 21 this September), but they generally get very short-term call ups where they're thrust onto a team mid season and maybe felt a little uncomfortable or tentative in the situation. He shouldn't necessarily be handed a NHL job but with a full training camp where he's able to grow with the team and coaching staff on and off the ice from the get-go and a spot on in the line-up that won't be taken away after 1 mistake or when a regular comes back from injury I think he could have a Liljegren-like impact next season.

 

[herman]

Aside from cap-related maneuvers, I think the main change has to be tactical. Getting stymied three series in a row by a team counter punching for a lead and then packing the house for minimal slot chances can?t stop us next season.

The play style is fine for regular season (dominant, even) but in a series with drilled in focus and basically open book scouting, you gotta do something that?s not as stoppable. Nick Paul?s goals and Carolina?s play style ought to be the template for something to layer onto what the Leafs already do:
1) supported rushes with better routes for rebounds.
The Leafs style is hold for better lanes and looks in the slot. Those get taken away first in the playoffs. Look to force rebounds instead and have the off puck players attack in staggered waves at the expected rebound angles. Giving the depth roles to our seasoned prospects should help with this, as footspeed and gumption are key.

2) in PP/OZ setups, forwards should just shoot. Similar to the above, our skill is a standout feature and a tool we should be leveraging to turn chaos into opportunity. More weird shots and surprise angles make goalies work harder, tire sooner. We don?t need highlight reel tic-tac-snipe plays. Goals are goals. Matthews patented catch-n-release wrist bomb weighs the same as a tip off K?mpf?s ass.

3) get more practice being ?dirty?. Our approach to playoff interference and whatnot is like nerds trying to stand up for themselves for the first time. Holl had the right idea picking for Tavares, but he did it so obviously even I wanted to blow the whistle.

 

[rdowdall]

I don?t think anything can guarantee a first round win.  Jack was fine but ultimately he had an .897 SV% in the playoffs.  Goaltending didn?t lose us the series but it didn?t win it for us either.  This team did not get good goaltending for the majority of the season.  I don?t know where you go to find that.  The organizations inability to develop a goaltender has been a problem. 

We need internal guys to come up and replace some people but aside from maybe Abruzzezze and Robertson I don?t see anyone else who is probably NHL ready.  I like a lot about Robertson but every time he gets called up he looks lost compared to AHL Robertson.  I?m
Worried that he really is too small for the NHL.  The difference between a. Guy like Blackwell who is tiny but is strong and able to fight through guys is really noticeable.  Maybe that?s just an age thing with him but he gets knocked around far too easily.

It would be nice if the Leafs had a center prospect that could play second line minutes and they could move Tavares to the first line left wing.  I was thinking maybe Kerfoot moves into that second line center role, and Nylander then works the wing on that line with Bunting.  Not sure how well it works.

As for the goaltending, I don't know if there is anything they can do there.