R2, G3: Panthers vs. Maple Leafs - May 7th, 6:30pm - SN, Fan 590
- Thread starter CarltonTheBear
- Start date
Guilt Trip
Active member
That's my issue. I'm not saying Matthews was great or anything but for me, Marner was the sole reason for that line struggling. I don't know what Marner was doing out there. He was only charged with 1 giveaway which is absurd because he gave it away all game. Keefe's reluctance to split them up might end up being his downfall.BrownRolo said:
I actually thought Matthews played well defensively but as far as offence goes, it's hard to produce when you're dragging around 1 guy.
Just one bad decision after another for 16 last night
Guilt Trip
Active member
I don't know what it is. I think coaches get comfortable with certain players and combos. Sometime you need to make the tough decisions. Like I don't know why Holl went back in. Liljegren play aweful or something? Hey at least he brought in Gus to limit Gio's ice.Bender said:
Kin
New member
Bender said:
There is, of course, a small problem with that narrative. While without a doubt trading for Tkachuk was done with the idea of adding some grit it also should be mentioned that Tkachuk was a guy whose team had also just been knocked out of the 2nd round 4-1 by a team they were favoured over in a series where Tkachuk had just one assist in the Flames last four games, all losses. So a trade to add some toughness? Sure. A trade to achieve playoff success? I mean it's worked so kudos but Tkachuk was basically as much a flop in the second round last year as our guys have been this year.
I know people don't like hearing this but the reality is that a lot of what happens in the playoffs is kind of random. All sorts of players, even those hailed as gritty and playoff ready and all that, sometimes have crummy stretches and bad series. Hell, one bounce the other way and this battle tested awesome gritty character filled Panthers team was getting knocked out in 5 games against the Bruins.
BrownRolo
New member
Guilt Trip said:
I honestly would have benched him. Or at least given him very limited minutes. He was a nervous wreck out there. Keefe seems afraid of Matthews and Marner. After that first goal where Bunting failed to get it deep and then Matthews did his one-handed attempt they showed Keefe on the bench and it seemed he was having words with Bunting but not Matthews. Hard to tell of course, but I don't think I've ever seen Marner get a talking to after all his giveaways.
Guilt Trip
Active member
Again totally agree and well said.Nik said:
bustaheims
Active member
If they can't make a series out of things, changes are inevitable, but I doubt they'll be as extreme as some are suggesting/screaming for.
-Keefe might be gone, but, at the very least, he'll be on a short leash. A new voice in the room might be the biggest change the team needs, though.
-Dubas coming back is probably more on him than on the team, to be honest.
-In terms of the core 4 upfront, there's no realistic trades involving Matthews or Marner that improve the team - we're talking about two guys who are among the top 5 at their respective positions. Moving them is a downgrade, period.
-Nylander has probably been the team's best player in this series - and has been productive in the playoffs the last few springs. He's the easiest to move, but if we're talking about building a team built for success in the playoffs, you don't move your best playoff performer.
-Tavares is probably most deserving of being moved, but, with a full NMC, he's not likely going anywhere.
-Of the 10 pending UFAs, the only ones that should be offered an opportunity to come back are Acciari, Schenn, and O'Reilly. Maybe Gustafsson, depending on some other moves, but the rest can go. Only 7 forwards currently on the roster are under contract for next season. That alone will change the complexion of the team quite dramatically.
-It might be time to consider moving Lilegren. He's a good young D, but his struggles with an effective forecheck really limit his effectiveness when it's crunch time.
-If Murray can be dumped without giving up assets, you have to do it to clear up some cap space. Same with Muzzin, to try to avoid needing to go into LTIR space.
-Keefe might be gone, but, at the very least, he'll be on a short leash. A new voice in the room might be the biggest change the team needs, though.
-Dubas coming back is probably more on him than on the team, to be honest.
-In terms of the core 4 upfront, there's no realistic trades involving Matthews or Marner that improve the team - we're talking about two guys who are among the top 5 at their respective positions. Moving them is a downgrade, period.
-Nylander has probably been the team's best player in this series - and has been productive in the playoffs the last few springs. He's the easiest to move, but if we're talking about building a team built for success in the playoffs, you don't move your best playoff performer.
-Tavares is probably most deserving of being moved, but, with a full NMC, he's not likely going anywhere.
-Of the 10 pending UFAs, the only ones that should be offered an opportunity to come back are Acciari, Schenn, and O'Reilly. Maybe Gustafsson, depending on some other moves, but the rest can go. Only 7 forwards currently on the roster are under contract for next season. That alone will change the complexion of the team quite dramatically.
-It might be time to consider moving Lilegren. He's a good young D, but his struggles with an effective forecheck really limit his effectiveness when it's crunch time.
-If Murray can be dumped without giving up assets, you have to do it to clear up some cap space. Same with Muzzin, to try to avoid needing to go into LTIR space.
Guilt Trip
Active member
I actually think Keefe was talking to both of them. And I don't know what was going on with Marner. He looked so nervous and indecisive even in his zone coverage.BrownRolo said:
I know Keefe had the blender out but he didn't move Marner away from Matthews. Matthews and Willy played just under 2 mins of 5v5. They outshot F 4-0, had 3 scoring chances for, 0 against.
Marner for me was Matthews's biggest issue last night and Keefe didn't put his best player in a position to succeed when it was clear to all, that Marner didn't have it last night.
Guilt Trip said:
I think that Matthew's and Marner have too much power in Toronto. I think Keefe is scared of ticking them off or challenging them. Kinda like the Ovechkin situation in Washington before Trotz. I'm not sure why he won't move Marner onto a line with O'Reilly and try rolling three lines.
Kin
New member
BrownRolo said:
Pointing out that the Panthers barely squeaked into the playoffs, in large part because of the hot play of a goalie who then proved so ineffective in the playoffs that he needed to be benched, drives home that so much of what happens in the playoffs is random and hard to predict and not strictly a measure of quality.
I mean, I get it. In chaos we try to discern patterns so as to try and make sense of things but in a league with this sort of parity where so much of success boils down to a single unpredictable variable (goaltending) making grand sweeping statements like "X happened in one playoff series therefore Y" is almost always going to be wrong.
BrownRolo
New member
Nik said:
I feel like I'm reading a cut scene from Jurassic Park. I read your post in Jeff Goldblum's voice just so you know.
NHL playoffs results are random to a degree, I agree. I also have eyes and unfortunately used them to watch Game 3. When you have 3 of the top 10 highest paid players in the league on your team and all 3 of them are exceptionally inept I don't care how much randomness there is you are not winning games.
azzurri63
Active member
BrownRolo said:
They run the show. Happened during the season if you recall when 16 got benched and then acted like a spoiled kid. Keefe was bang on sitting him that game but it was only for a couple shifts if I recall. Then had to make a statement saying it was like his fault. It's bulls**t the coddling the 2 get him and Matthews. Time to ship one or both out and in my opinion it has to be both or neither because if one of them is traded I guarantee you're going to be left with the other unhappy spoiled star.
As far as this series the core is to blame. Like I read last night 40+ million dollars and not a single goal but more importantly is the effort or lack of it. Again not the first time it's the same every year how they seem to disappear which comes back to when is enough is enough and time to move on from these underachievers. Something has got to give this summer.
The problem with Nylander is that he's the hero of the counternarrative, and people love to go fishing for stats to prove it.
The reality is this -He's got the benefit of the 2nd tier matchups, and should be a major x factor as a result. He hasn't scored in what seems like forever, he's making plays largely in the periphery, instead of driving the net like he's done through the season, and when the puck isn't on his stick, he's close to being a liability, particularly in D zone coverage.
The idea that he's the bright light and everyone else sucks is just nonsense. They all seem to be a bit unprepared for this series, up and down the lineup, including behind the bench.
Ultimately, they're playing a team that's really stepped it up, against a goalie that's all of a sudden decided to play to the level of his contract, and are losing essentially by one goal games.
The reality is this -He's got the benefit of the 2nd tier matchups, and should be a major x factor as a result. He hasn't scored in what seems like forever, he's making plays largely in the periphery, instead of driving the net like he's done through the season, and when the puck isn't on his stick, he's close to being a liability, particularly in D zone coverage.
The idea that he's the bright light and everyone else sucks is just nonsense. They all seem to be a bit unprepared for this series, up and down the lineup, including behind the bench.
Ultimately, they're playing a team that's really stepped it up, against a goalie that's all of a sudden decided to play to the level of his contract, and are losing essentially by one goal games.