Well sadly I think we all owe Keefe an apology.
R2, G5: Panthers @ Maple Leafs - May 14th, 7:00pm - SN, TSN 1050
- Thread starter CarltonTheBear
- Start date
bustaheims
Well-known member
Can't argue with this. All I can say is that, with a team that's less top-heavy and running mates that aren't as easy to completely shut down, I think Matthews is still capable of taking over a series the way we've seen flashes of. You can also live with Nylander's defensive deficiencies when he's producing, which he's shown an ability to do in the playoffs. Maybe load them up on a top line with Knies - who should improve his consistency with some more experience and maturity - and go from there. The 2nd line needs to be completely rebuilt and some real depth scoring needs to be brought in instead of filling the bottom 6 with role players.These are good players. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Marner goes on to put up a good playoff run next year if he goes to another team. I think the well is poisoned and sometimes you can't fix it and just have to dig a new one.
The core is toxic. The reputation is too much to overcome.
Honestly the more I think about this team, the more I wonder if a retool is enough.
Matthews is an absurd player in the regular season. He's had moments of taking over games. He was fantastic in the middle of the Boston series last year. That's a rare occurrence. He's a 13+M dollar player who shrinks in the postseason.
Nylander is an absurd offensive talent. His defensive game is non-existent at times.
Marner. An absurd regular season player. His game is far too peripheral and he can't play through the physicality to generate goals.
Tavares. He's old and it really shows right now. I know he's had moments of putting up points but he has honestly been the worst of the core 4 players to me when I'm watching him skate around the ice the last few games. The puck dies on his stick every time he gets it on the half boards and the few times he does win a puck battle he then tries to drive through three guys leading to a turnover.
Knies...man he's a really impressive younger player but he does go quiet at times. I expected him to be more of a physically imposing force as this series went on and I feel like he's gotten quieter.
Carlo/Tanev/McCabe/Benoit - they can't move the puck up the ice consistently. Berube has us playing a dump and chase system that can't generate speed out of the defensive zone. We need guys who can play defensively AND be puck movers.
Rielly - can move the puck up the ice but holy hell he is bad defensively.
OEL - an in between problem. He's decent enough defensively. He's decent enough getting the puck moving but he also makes a lot of mistakes handling the puc
The rest of them:
0 Goals - Laughton, McMann, Lorentz, Jarnkrok, Holmberg....we are 11 games into the playoffs
Lorentz -4, Laughton -3, McMann -3, Jarnkrok -3
They don't score and then eventually give up goals AND they aren't facing the top offensive units. This isn't Laughton going up against Connor McDavid and holding him to 7 points in 5 games. It's them getting outplayed by other 3rd and 4th lines.
2028 1st - unprotected to Philly if 2027 pick is protected
2027 1st - traded for Scott Laughton (top 10 protected)
2026 1st - traded for Brendan Carlo (Top 5 protected)
2025 1st - traded for Jake McCabe
2024 1st - draft Ben Danford
2023 1st - traded for Ryan O'Reilly
2023 1st - draft Easton Cowan (Sandin trade)
2022 1st - traded to unload Petr Mrazek (got a 2nd round pick to draft Minten)
2021 1st - traded for Nick Foligno
2020 1st - given up to unload the last year of Patrick Marleau (Seth Jarvis)
2020 1st - draft Rodion Amirov
2019 1st - traded for Jake Muezzin
2018 1st - draft Rasmus Sandin
2017 1st - draft Timothy Liljegren
2016 1st - traded for Freddy Andersen
What a miserable pile of nonsense.
Kaberle15
Well-known member
I follow this team for 35+ years now
This is by far the worse playoff game I've witness.
Losing to Boston in 2013 after being up by 4-1 was nothing compare to last night lack of effort. This team is broken on its core, blow them up.
I decided to not watch game 6 and 7 (hahaha). I will only watch this team playing at playoffs again either next year or at the conference finals.
This team has no character, no resilience, cannot face adversity in playoffs, they are great regular season team, and Matthews and Marner can probably end up being 1 and 2 overall in Leafs history, but at playoffs... they simply can't do it.
This is by far the worse playoff game I've witness.
Losing to Boston in 2013 after being up by 4-1 was nothing compare to last night lack of effort. This team is broken on its core, blow them up.
I decided to not watch game 6 and 7 (hahaha). I will only watch this team playing at playoffs again either next year or at the conference finals.
This team has no character, no resilience, cannot face adversity in playoffs, they are great regular season team, and Matthews and Marner can probably end up being 1 and 2 overall in Leafs history, but at playoffs... they simply can't do it.
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There were also the early mistakes of letting JVR and Bozak (and maybe others I'm forgetting) walk for nothing when the team should still have been amassing draft picks and young talent. Management got greedy/impatient and rushed things. I often find myself wondering whether things would have turned out differently if this group had missed the playoffs a year or two along the way.
Looking at what the Leafs have in the system, both in terms of prospects and draft picks, plus that already old defensive group suggests that the crash, when it comes, is going to be fast, deep and long-lasting. Unless maybe they have some kind of wink-wink agreement with McDavid lined up.
Also, does anyone else get nervous when they hear the names Easton Cowan and Rob Schremp mentioned in the same sentence...Nick Robertson scored an amazing 55 goals in 46 games one year in the OHL and he's struggling to hold an NHL job.
Looking at what the Leafs have in the system, both in terms of prospects and draft picks, plus that already old defensive group suggests that the crash, when it comes, is going to be fast, deep and long-lasting. Unless maybe they have some kind of wink-wink agreement with McDavid lined up.
Also, does anyone else get nervous when they hear the names Easton Cowan and Rob Schremp mentioned in the same sentence...Nick Robertson scored an amazing 55 goals in 46 games one year in the OHL and he's struggling to hold an NHL job.
Leafs got eliminated by the Devils in 2000 in game 6 with just 6 shots in the game, 6 shots total in the game!
Andy007
Well-known member
I just don't understand why there wasn't a concentrated effort to figure this out during the regular season (and preceding regular seasons). We've seen for awhile that the Matthews-Marner connection is just way too easy to shut down in the post season, where there's less room and tighter, more suffocating checking; so why have they been attached to the hip every single game? Even the tough new coach, renowned for rolling 4 balanced lines, hasn't even tried (other than a couple of random games) to split them up. It's really a shame, and quite bizarre, when you look at their respective playoff production (particularly in the game 5-7 range); how has there never been a lineup change/switch?
That's the one that stands out as the worst playoff game I've seen them play.
I still think it's ridiculous the core doesn't play over 3 lines.
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Well-known member
LEAFS IN SEVEN.
bustaheims
Well-known member
Thankfully, I missed that one. Unfortunately, I didn't miss last night.
azzurri63
Well-known member
Yep amazing what we have given away in reality for f all. I'm expecting some tough times ahead. I'll wait to see what the summer brings us but I can honestly see us missing the playoffs. Some argued with me but if we go back to the beginning of the season Stolarz was playing lights out and a huge reason we got off to the start we did. He was our best player. The writing has been on the wall with this core for a long time. Unless they surprise us in the next 2 games which I highly doubt the team should look drastically different come October.These are good players. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Marner goes on to put up a good playoff run next year if he goes to another team. I think the well is poisoned and sometimes you can't fix it and just have to dig a new one.
The core is toxic. The reputation is too much to overcome.
Honestly the more I think about this team, the more I wonder if a retool is enough.
Matthews is an absurd player in the regular season. He's had moments of taking over games. He was fantastic in the middle of the Boston series last year. That's a rare occurrence. He's a 13+M dollar player who shrinks in the postseason.
Nylander is an absurd offensive talent. His defensive game is non-existent at times.
Marner. An absurd regular season player. His game is far too peripheral and he can't play through the physicality to generate goals.
Tavares. He's old and it really shows right now. I know he's had moments of putting up points but he has honestly been the worst of the core 4 players to me when I'm watching him skate around the ice the last few games. The puck dies on his stick every time he gets it on the half boards and the few times he does win a puck battle he then tries to drive through three guys leading to a turnover.
Knies...man he's a really impressive younger player but he does go quiet at times. I expected him to be more of a physically imposing force as this series went on and I feel like he's gotten quieter.
Carlo/Tanev/McCabe/Benoit - they can't move the puck up the ice consistently. Berube has us playing a dump and chase system that can't generate speed out of the defensive zone. We need guys who can play defensively AND be puck movers.
Rielly - can move the puck up the ice but holy hell he is bad defensively.
OEL - an in between problem. He's decent enough defensively. He's decent enough getting the puck moving but he also makes a lot of mistakes handling the puc
The rest of them:
0 Goals - Laughton, McMann, Lorentz, Jarnkrok, Holmberg....we are 11 games into the playoffs
Lorentz -4, Laughton -3, McMann -3, Jarnkrok -3
They don't score and then eventually give up goals AND they aren't facing the top offensive units. This isn't Laughton going up against Connor McDavid and holding him to 7 points in 5 games. It's them getting outplayed by other 3rd and 4th lines.
2028 1st - unprotected to Philly if 2027 pick is protected
2027 1st - traded for Scott Laughton (top 10 protected)
2026 1st - traded for Brendan Carlo (Top 5 protected)
2025 1st - traded for Jake McCabe
2024 1st - draft Ben Danford
2023 1st - traded for Ryan O'Reilly
2023 1st - draft Easton Cowan (Sandin trade)
2022 1st - traded to unload Petr Mrazek (got a 2nd round pick to draft Minten)
2021 1st - traded for Nick Foligno
2020 1st - given up to unload the last year of Patrick Marleau (Seth Jarvis)
2020 1st - draft Rodion Amirov
2019 1st - traded for Jake Muezzin
2018 1st - draft Rasmus Sandin
2017 1st - draft Timothy Liljegren
2016 1st - traded for Freddy Andersen
What a miserable pile of nonsense.
Was that the one where Domi elbowed Niedermayer in the head?
That was the following years playoffs... I blame him for the series loss. I still assume the same out of Max, which we are seeing. Stupid, stupid, stupid penalties.
It's insane, that's what it is. How many years have we paired these meek regular-season Globetrotters?
OldTimeHockey
Well-known member
This is the first time that I've felt the Leafs should seriously look at blowing it all up. For the past how many years we've said "the goaltending is letting the team down" or "the defense is letting the team down"? Well, they have two extremely good goalies. And the team has a much stronger D...and the results have remained the same. There's only a couple constants throughout this process. The coaches have been changed. The GM's have been changed. The periphery players have been changed. The core(hate that word) and Shannahan are the only things remaining.
dappleganger
Well-known member
It may just be the most Leafian thing ever.
(And lose to Carolina in the ECF)
ZBBM
Well-known member
I didn't miss that one, and they had more than 6 shots. The shot clock was total home-team BS to reinforce the narrative of NJ defensive prowess (which was real and didn't need to be exaggerated).