Randy Carlyle/Leaf Coach thread

[TML fan]

Ok the team is 11-5 and I am reading this team has no good players, and our defence sucks. 11 and 5!!!. I think for the injurys we have been through and the new players we have added, this team is as solid as you could expect it to be.  why pick it apart when you could be enjoying it. I think its non leaf fans that are just egging on some hard core leaf fans. because no real leaf fan is going to whine about there team when its 11-5. who care if we get out shot, as long as we win more often then not. we will tighten up as the season goes on.

The point is that they won't win more often than not if they keep this up. It's a long season. They are 11-5 now but where will they be at game 82? Nobody wants to see this team fall off a cliff again.

I would rather 22 solid shots then 40 that where half of them are just basically a soft shot on net. this shot on net thing is just being played to hard by the press. I think for our injury plagued season we have had so far, we are doing great.

Shots on goal are indicative of puck possession. Regardless of the quality of shots the goaltenders are facing, the underlying problem is the Leafs are playing too much of the game without the puck. The other team is "shoot shoot shoot" -ing because they always have the puck, and they can afford to take more, lower quality shots because they know they will get the puck back.

To put it in simpler terms, if the Leafs have the puck more, there will be fewer shots against, and with the goaltending they've been getting, even less chance that the Leafs will get scored on. That SHOULD = more wins.

 

[nutman]

The more this season goes on, the more I see that Carlyle needs to find a way to get his guys wound up to play. maybe he goes out and buys a cattle prod for when they start to coast.

The bottom line is that they should always be pumped and yet they come in flat, or during the game they go flat. This is a big fault of Carlyle that needs to be addressed asap.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

The more this season goes on, the more I see that Carlyle needs to find a way to get his guys wound up to play. maybe he goes out and buys a cattle prod for when they start to coast.

The bottom line is that they should always be pumped and yet they come in flat, or during the game they go flat. This is a big fault of Carlyle that needs to be addressed asap.

I love how around here the coach deserves little credit in the wins but takes all the blames for the faults.

Holding a coach responsible because a group of adults can't get hyped to play hockey is asinine.

 

[hap_leaf]

The more this season goes on, the more I see that Carlyle needs to find a way to get his guys wound up to play. maybe he goes out and buys a cattle prod for when they start to coast.

The bottom line is that they should always be pumped and yet they come in flat, or during the game they go flat. This is a big fault of Carlyle that needs to be addressed asap.

I see this as a factor of your earlier statements about shots on net.  If you are a player on a team that is getting outshot AGAIN as you sit on the bench, looking at the shot totals being like 43-20 do you think that you might get demoralized?  As TMLfan rightly explains, the shot totals are indicative of the play in general.  And its not something the players should be proud about.  Then come the lapses in concentration and self fulfilling prophecy that you deserve to lose.

What should Carlyle say in the intermission to pump his team up?  "Wow, by the looks of things, you guys should actually be losing 7-0.  Great job!"

But overall, I see the team tightening up defensively as you mention and I hope that trend continues.

 

[moon111]

I think the Leafs are more willing to have a player rush with the puck, rather then dump it in or pass it.  In that respect, Kessel, Kadri, Lupul, Raymond lead forwards in giveaways.  All defensemen are pretty bad at giveaways.  That starts to point the finger at the system rather then the players.

 

[TML fan]

The more this season goes on, the more I see that Carlyle needs to find a way to get his guys wound up to play. maybe he goes out and buys a cattle prod for when they start to coast.

The bottom line is that they should always be pumped and yet they come in flat, or during the game they go flat. This is a big fault of Carlyle that needs to be addressed asap.

I love how around here the coach deserves little credit in the wins but takes all the blames for the faults.

Holding a coach responsible because a group of adults can't get hyped to play hockey is asinine.

I don't think the coach deserves a lot of credit for excellent goaltending. I believe the Leafs are winning because of their talent level and in spite of Carlyle.

Just watch the games. His system is awful.

 

[hockeyfan1]

The more this season goes on, the more I see that Carlyle needs to find a way to get his guys wound up to play. maybe he goes out and buys a cattle prod for when they start to coast.

The bottom line is that they should always be pumped and yet they come in flat, or during the game they go flat. This is a big fault of Carlyle that needs to be addressed asap.

I love how around here the coach deserves little credit in the wins but takes all the blames for the faults.

Holding a coach responsible because a group of adults can't get hyped to play hockey is asinine.

I don't think the coach deserves a lot of credit for. excellent goaltending. I believe the Leafs are winning because of their talent level and in spite of Carlyle.

Just watch the games. His system is awful.

Goaltending is the backbone of this team.  Since they get outshot practically every game, anything less than the way the goaltenders are playing would be disastrous.  Luckily for us, Reimer & Bernier are stopping as many oucks directed at them as possible.

Carlyle may not have the greatest system in the world, but at least he has the players who are offensive enough in spite of awful defence plus shots on goal.

If you're looking for perfection, you'll never find it.  The Leafs are far from perfect, yet they somehow manage to win when they can and are a much-improved team from yesteryears.  That said, the team could use some upgrading, but for now it's probably the best that can be done (from a managerial standpoint).

Besides, having two centres on the sidelines is no easy task for a team like the Leafs to overcome.  Until either Bozak and/or Bolland return, the team's lines chemistry will continue to be mixed.  And that's not Carlyle's fault.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

It was a remarkable sequence.

Shift after shift, the Toronto Maple Leafs were deep in the offensive zone, cycling the puck on the Boston Bruins and wearing out captain Zdeno Chara to the point he was hardly moving by the end what became a shift of 2 minutes 37 second for the big man.

The full extent of the Leafs? dominance lasted roughly 12 minutes in the second period of Saturday?s 3-1 loss, but the damage they managed to do there was unlike that of any other stretch they?ve managed this season.

They outshot Boston 17-3, all at even strength, and had 24 attempts on net compared to five from the Bruins.

In other words, they looked little like the Toronto Maple Leafs ? and more like the team that coach Randy Carlyle wants them to become.

?I think every coach would like their team to play that way,? Carlyle said. ?That?s more the type of hockey that we?re going to ask the hockey club to play. A little bit more of a cycle game, a little bit more of a puck-possession game, you know, instead of the up and down, trading chances.?

?Obviously it felt pretty good there in the second period taking the game over,? alternate captain Joffrey Lupul added.

The analysis of the Leafs? shots-on-goal problems has been beaten to death over the past 10 months, but the real issue in the long term is one of zone time, not simply putting meaningless rubber on goal.

By any measure, Toronto spends a disproportionate amount of time in its own end, with new statistics estimating their offensive versus defensive zone time at 41.4 per cent, the second-worst rating in the league.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/leafs-still-searching-to-find-complete-game/article15369892/

This is the thing about "Corsi" and the mocking it tends to get on this site about how the Leafs are into quality shots, or that the opposition can take as many low percentage shots as it wants.  It isn't really about shots, but simply trying to measure how much zone time or possession your team gets.  The NHL used to track zone time, but they stopped years ago.  "Corsi", or shot attempts for/against, is only used as a proxy for what used to be recorded as zone time.  Since no one records zone time anymore, someone did the comparisons and found that a team's "Corsi" numbers correlated highly to zone time (Here's a link demonstrating that).

Hopefully that makes it seem a little less crazy and revolutionary to people - it's only trying to recreate what the NHL used to track, the theory being that if you have more time with the puck than the opposition over the course of a year you'll have a better chance of winning.  It's not the be-all, end-all.  It's still important to value other "traditional" skills too.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

A blogger over at PPP actually took a stopwatch and determined the Leafs zone time over 24 games last season and found that it was essentially identical to their Fenwick/Corsi ratings:

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2013/9/16/4727746/leafs-attack-time-at-the-halfway-mark

Then again, that doesn't really account for "quality zone time" so screw it.

 

[drummond]

A blogger over at PPP actually took a stopwatch and determined the Leafs zone time over 24 games last season and found that it was essentially identical to their Fenwick/Corsi ratings:

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2013/9/16/4727746/leafs-attack-time-at-the-halfway-mark

Then again, that doesn't really account for "quality zone time" so screw it.

it amazes me what people can do, fascinating

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

A blogger over at PPP actually took a stopwatch and determined the Leafs zone time over 24 games last season and found that it was essentially identical to their Fenwick/Corsi ratings:

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2013/9/16/4727746/leafs-attack-time-at-the-halfway-mark

Then again, that doesn't really account for "quality zone time" so screw it.

it amazes me what people can do, fascinating

When you live in your mom's basement there's a lot of free time before she gets off work to make dinner.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Since we were sorta on the topic of advanced stats it's comments like this that infuriate me:

Gord Miller ‏@GMillerTSN 3m
Another issue with hockey analytics: even if you think they work, do they have a place on a broadcast? Do people want an algebra lesson?

I admit that advanced stats might be a bit intimating at first, but corsi is just shots directed at one net vs. shots directed at the other net. It's no more complicated than plus/minus and despite it's flaws a heck of a lot more useful.

Sure, things get a bit more complicated when you start to try and calculate relative corsi and quality of competition, but the main battle here is over whether to accept corsi or not.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Since we were sorta on the topic of advanced stats it's comments like this that infuriate me:

Gord Miller ‏@GMillerTSN 3m
Another issue with hockey analytics: even if you think they work, do they have a place on a broadcast? Do people want an algebra lesson?

I admit that advanced stats might be a bit intimating at first, but corsi is just shots directed at one net vs. shots directed at the other net. It's no more complicated than plus/minus and despite it's flaws a heck of a lot more useful.

Sure, things get a bit more complicated when you start to try and calculate relative corsi and quality of competition, but the main battle here is over whether to accept corsi or not.

I forget which teams, but some NHL broadcasts this year have presented shots directed for/against stats on the screen to emphasize possession a team had.  They didn't label them Corsi or anything, but that's what it was on the screen.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I forget which teams, but some NHL broadcasts this year have presented shots directed for/against stats on the screen to emphasize possession a team had.  They didn't label them Corsi or anything, but that's what it was on the screen.

Yeah, I've seen that too. And I know Paul MacLean in Ottawa has used that same language for a couple of years now without actually saying corsi. A lot of teams are starting to take it seriously, which just makes it more annoying to hear somebody like Nonis say it has no value. Try telling that to Dean Lombardi, Doug Wilson, Kevin Cheveldayoff, or Chuck Fletcher.

 

[Deebo]

Craig Custance ‏@CraigCustance 3m
Nonis on advanced stats used by media/fans: "As of right now, very few of them are worth anything to us.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think this seems to sum up Nonis' thoughts on advanced stats:

Arpon Basu ‏@ArponBasu 15m
So it would appear that Dave Nonis believes since analytics don't provide all the answers, they must logically provide none.

 

[nutman]

Advance stats are a joke... anyone who takes them serious must not watch the games.

 

[louisstamos]

Advance stats are a joke... anyone who takes them serious must not watch the games.

Considering the dudes at PPP re-watched the first 24 games of last year with a stopwatch in hand, I'd argue the opposite - they over-watch the games!

 

[mr grieves]

I think this seems to sum up Nonis' thoughts on advanced stats:

Arpon Basu ‏@ArponBasu 15m
So it would appear that Dave Nonis believes since analytics don't provide all the answers, they must logically provide none.

Another gem:

One of the things we look for is does a player have character?... You're not going to find one HOFer that didn't have character.

Interestingly, the team's two best players were knocked as 'bad' character guys by their former teams. And each of the team's disappointing to terrible signings -- Komi, Armstrong, Liles, maybe Clarkson -- were sold as 'character' guys.

 

[Frank E]

it amazes me what people can do, fascinating

When you live in your mom's basement there's a lot of free time before she gets off work to make dinner.

I wish.  My mom doesn't make me dinner when she gets home.