Randy Carlyle/Leaf Coach thread

[Capn_Crunch]

Hilarious hearing and reading about how Carlyle put the Leafs through a "normal" practice and they were all dead tired and sucking wind at the end. 

"Hey coach, why can't we play dodgeball in practice like we used to, this stuff is hard!"

;D ;D

There is also this from the Toronto Star:

But what?s far less flattering to Wilson?s legacy is that it took all of one game for his successor to pinpoint his team?s most fixable weakness. The way Carlyle appears to see it, the Leafs, along with being out of the playoff picture, are also out of shape. It?s as indefensible as it?s true.

I'm skeptical.  Maurice said it when he arrived.  Wilson said it when he arrived.  And now Carlyle (or the media) are saying it when he arrived.

Every time a new coach arrives, they claim they need the players to get in to better shape.  On the one hand, I'm sure it's true:  the better the players conditioning, the harder and more continuously they can press the attack.  On the other hand, all decent coaches know this and all decent coaches want their team to be in good shape.  It isn't the case that Wilson, whatever faults he might have had, wasn't aware that good conditioning was a helpful component of team success.

I seem to recall outsiders (most notably Gary Roberts) commenting on certain player's conditioning programs, most notably Luke Schenn and saying they weren't approaching it correctly for the type of player he is.  It's been around for awhile now and I subscribe to the "where's there's smoke there's probably fire" mentality.

Roberts was also making the comments as a guy who was very clearly pissed off at the Leafs for not handing him/Nieuwendyk 300 million dollar contracts.  It was a biased opinion a little bit where he was taking stabs at the training staff of an organization that kissed his butt until the lockout.

GR also knows how to get into shape and stay there, the players that have gone thru his summer program usually have banner years. I would honestly listen to what he had to say, some would with a grain of salt but just tuning him out because of a age old contract dispute would not be taking the whole picture into account.

 

[Kin]

If this is in regards to the thread title, nobody seemed to mind when it was made up for Wilson. It addresses the two opposite opinions a Maple Leafs fan often has of a coach/player/prospect/GM, while being just a little bit funny.

Yeah, when I started the Wilson thread with the name it was just a comment on the way opinions tend to go to one extreme or the other. I liked it and I like it more for Carlyle.

Although nutman complained about that thread title too, chiefly because he didn't even bother to read the second half of it. Personally, I'm inclined to keep this up just to spite him.

 

[ZBBM]

My impression of Roberts is that he's a bit self-serving.  And, when it comes to things fitness, a Knowitallinski.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

My impression of Roberts is that he's a bit self-serving.  And, when it comes to things fitness, a Knowitallinski.

Always thought that he got way too much credit for this Stamkos guy. It's not as if Stamkos was a 5th round draft pick slug that was lost until he met Roberts.

 

[cw]

I'm in the skeptical camp.

Wendel swore by Chris Broadhurst
Quinn had the fitness monitoring stuff overhauled.
Matt Nichol, who Quinn brought in, did his thing and still has a NHL following after his departure.
Maurice did his thing on fitness.
Wilson did his thing on fitness.
Somewhere in between, they switched up the fitness monitoring outfit again.

It's been thumped regularly and the monitoring is better than ever.

This is a skating club and for the most part, they've skated pretty darn well this season - it's been one redeeming thing about them. I have trouble reconciling their ability to out skate a lot of NHL teams while being grossly out of shape.

Could they have slipped some during the season - in part, due to the wear and tear? Sure. But I really doubt it's dramatic and purely a case of them slacking off. Wilson had plenty of cause to put them through some tough skates and at times, he did.

To me, this was a marginal team who went into a slump. Wilson didn't suddenly forget how to coach. And for the most part, the fitness folks and players didn't suddenly forget how to maintain the team's fitness. I'd allow their fitness could be off a little but I don't know how one skates as they have much of the season while grossly out of shape. I don't buy that while folks grasp for reasons for why they slumped.

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

about the fitness thing ..i guess it can go two ways too ..i remember hearing that tortorella tends not to drive his players hard during the year because he figured the games were grueling enough and didn't want to cause more injuries than he had to ...maybe i'm wrong about that..but i do remember something like that coming out when the lightning won the cup

 

[cw]

about the fitness thing ..i guess it can go two ways too ..i remember hearing that tortorella tends not to drive his players hard during the year because he figured the games were grueling enough and didn't want to cause more injuries than he had to ...maybe i'm wrong about that..but i do remember something like that coming out when the lightning won the cup

And those Lightning teams had uncanny good health - fewest injuries/games lost.

 

[Zee]

My impression of Roberts is that he's a bit self-serving.  And, when it comes to things fitness, a Knowitallinski.

Say what you want about Roberts his results speak for themselves and every player who's worked with him gives incredible credit for Roberts helping to take their game to another level. 

 

[lamajama]

Having gone through this type of situation (not NHL coaching obviously)
many times before, I think it's a situation of trying to set a higher standard
than the previous guy no matter what as *right now* is the highest you'll ever have their attention.

 

[Kin]

Say what you want about Roberts his results speak for themselves and every player who's worked with him gives incredible credit for Roberts helping to take their game to another level.

Well, that's all well and good but it's not like everyone who trains with him does take their game to another level. You look at his list of clients and there's a lot of them who are basically the same guys before and after. As mentioned, it's not like Stamkos development was a mystery that peopel needed solved.

 

[Zee]

Say what you want about Roberts his results speak for themselves and every player who's worked with him gives incredible credit for Roberts helping to take their game to another level.

Well, that's all well and good but it's not like everyone who trains with him does take their game to another level. You look at his list of clients and there's a lot of them who are basically the same guys before and after. As mentioned, it's not like Stamkos development was a mystery that peopel needed solved.

All NHLers are already at an elite level that goes without saying, but the fact that many NHLers view Roberts as a top trainer, pay their own way in the summers to attend a camp he organizes, says alot about his reputation as a trainer.  I don't understand the sour attitude that some Leafs fans seem to have against Roberts now?  He's not part of the Leafs organization, had a contract dispute a while ago and now some Leafs fans think he's an arrogant know it all?  Blows my mind after all the great seaons Roberts gave the Leafs.

 

[rdowdall]

Say what you want about Roberts his results speak for themselves and every player who's worked with him gives incredible credit for Roberts helping to take their game to another level.

Well, that's all well and good but it's not like everyone who trains with him does take their game to another level. You look at his list of clients and there's a lot of them who are basically the same guys before and after. As mentioned, it's not like Stamkos development was a mystery that peopel needed solved.

I find your quotes interesting.  Are they random or should they be applied to the current situation the maple leafs find themselves in?

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

Say what you want about Roberts his results speak for themselves and every player who's worked with him gives incredible credit for Roberts helping to take their game to another level.

Well, that's all well and good but it's not like everyone who trains with him does take their game to another level. You look at his list of clients and there's a lot of them who are basically the same guys before and after. As mentioned, it's not like Stamkos development was a mystery that peopel needed solved.

All NHLers are already at an elite level that goes without saying, but the fact that many NHLers view Roberts as a top trainer, pay their own way in the summers to attend a camp he organizes, says alot about his reputation as a trainer.  I don't understand the sour attitude that some Leafs fans seem to have against Roberts now?  He's not part of the Leafs organization, had a contract dispute a while ago and now some Leafs fans think he's an arrogant know it all?  Blows my mind after all the great seaons Roberts gave the Leafs.

not to wade into the whole gary robert's debate ...but a lot of hockey players seem to wear those ionized bracelets too ..and those things are total BS ...

 

[LittleHockeyFan]

My impression of Roberts is that he's a bit self-serving.  And, when it comes to things fitness, a Knowitallinski.

I want to LOL but your punny last name is a wee bit racist (speaking as someone with a sky/ski last name)



btw, for the humour impaired, that was a definite tongue in cheek

 

[Kin]

All NHLers are already at an elite level that goes without saying, but the fact that many NHLers view Roberts as a top trainer, pay their own way in the summers to attend a camp he organizes, says alot about his reputation as a trainer.

It says a lot about his reputation as a trainer, sure, but it says nothing about his "results" as you put it. Being a great hockey player isn't a fitness test. Fitness play a role, sure, but as you mention most of these guys already have access to good trainers.

Hockey players are susceptible to fads and groupthink just like the rest of us.

I don't understand the sour attitude that some Leafs fans seem to have against Roberts now?  He's not part of the Leafs organization, had a contract dispute a while ago and now some Leafs fans think he's an arrogant know it all?  Blows my mind after all the great seaons Roberts gave the Leafs.

It didn't start with the contract dispute. It's been widely believed for some time that Roberts' was Steve Simmons' source inside the locker room way back when and some people have seen Roberts as a clubhouse lawyer since.

 

[Kin]

I find your quotes interesting.  Are they random or should they be applied to the current situation the maple leafs find themselves in?

I like to think the quotes I choose can teach us all about life as a general rule, including the Maple Leafs.

 

[nutman]

Thanks for the change, much better.

I wish we could add Roberts to the staff.

 

[Kin]

Thanks for the change, much better.

Really? This new thread title is now to your liking? So you won't whine incessantly about it?

I'm personally very relieved to hear it.

 

[nutman]

Thanks for the change, much better.

Really? This new thread title is now to your liking? So you won't whine incessantly about it?

I'm personally very relieved to hear it.

We'll see.

 

[rdowdall]

I find your quotes interesting.  Are they random or should they be applied to the current situation the maple leafs find themselves in?

I like to think the quotes I choose can teach us all about life as a general rule, including the Maple Leafs.

I've tried nothing and I am all out of ideas.