Rick Nash potentially available

[bustaheims]

I don't think their overall value is too far off either, but I've already said the value of guys like Bernier are low because you never know if they'll become a Schneider or a Harding (not that Harding should be completely written off yet). With that said, this discussion is based off who Columbus would be more interested in. And I think if they're trading Rick Nash they'll be a lot more interested in looking for the potential home-run in Bernier than going the safe route with Reimer.

At any other position, I'd agree with you, but, in terms of goaltending, I think they might very well be more open to taking the safer route and getting a guy they know they can win games with, while maximizing their value with the other pieces in the deal.

 

[Bender]

In terms of trade value right now, I'm not convinced there's a whole lot of difference between Reimer and Bernier. With Bernier, you get the more highly touted guy who might have a higher ceiling, but with Reimer, you get the more proven guy with an extra year on his contract (the difference in cap hit between them right now is not enough to really alter their value).

Yes and this is what I was getting at.  Reimer has been propped up by Leaf Nation to be the saviour and Bernier, although seen to be the guy with the most upside when drafted, hasn't really taken the bull by the horns or stole a job from Quick.  I mean if you went on draft position alone why would Bernier not be given more of a chance over Quick who was drafted in the 3rd round.  It is because Quick has performed and when it comes down to the nitty gritty, that is what is most important right? 

Reimer elevated his worth last year and I am not a big fan either, he seems to have overachieved, I wish Gus was given the bulk of play right now.  I think though if you remove our ability as the realistic Leaf Fan and put yourself in the position of the outsider and you just listen to the hype that is Reimer he may not have lost the god like status he gained last season.  His numbers this year are not horrible and he was concussed, 2 of his 3 shutouts were gifts even but was Howson at those games, not likely. 

So Reimer in place of Bernier in that deal is not a fall off in the eyes of Howson I would think.  So with Jonathan Bernier, is he the next Al Montoya, an all but forgotten first round goalie prospect or will he be the next Luongo, a first round goalie prospect to have a long and successful NHL career.  I think Reimer and Bernier have reached the point where the draft may be a distant memory right now.  It is more of a what are you doing right now situation 6 years after the draft.  I mean add the fact that Reimer is a product of a run and gun offensive system that has seen the red light lit at an astounding rate post-Belfour and I am sure that many a team looking for a goalie takes that into account when gauging a goaltender's worth.

For me the interesting thing about Reimer is, while Bernier may have put up top 5 numbers, Reimer always put up respectable numbers with a bottom of the barrel Calgary Hitmen team.

 

[bustaheims]

For me the interesting thing about Reimer is, while Bernier may have put up top 5 numbers, Reimer always put up respectable numbers with a bottom of the barrel Calgary Hitmen team.

If by Calgary Hitmen, you mean Red Deer Rebels . . .

 

[Bender]

For me the interesting thing about Reimer is, while Bernier may have put up top 5 numbers, Reimer always put up respectable numbers with a bottom of the barrel Calgary Hitmen team.

If by Calgary Hitmen, you mean Red Deer Rebels . . .

YES. Pogge was Hitmen. Oh god, why am I working on a Saturday??

 

[Bonsixx]

We're all probably overrating Gardiner a bit right now, but it's hard not to. I wouldn't trade him either.

 

[KW Sluggo]

I don't think their overall value is too far off either, but I've already said the value of guys like Bernier are low because you never know if they'll become a Schneider or a Harding (not that Harding should be completely written off yet). With that said, this discussion is based off who Columbus would be more interested in. And I think if they're trading Rick Nash they'll be a lot more interested in looking for the potential home-run in Bernier than going the safe route with Reimer.

At any other position, I'd agree with you, but, in terms of goaltending, I think they might very well be more open to taking the safer route and getting a guy they know they can win games with, while maximizing their value with the other pieces in the deal.

I do not disagree with you, BH, but would suggest looking at the Columbus goaltending problem from another angle, namely the salary cap.

Columbus has too much money tied up in three non producing (relative to their respective salaries) assets, Nash, Carter and Mason.

The Kings, like the Leafs need a scoring forward but the Kings, unlike the Leafs, lack the means to eat a salary.

To get a goalie would only solve part of the Columbus goaltending dilemma.

The BJs would love to deal the mason contract. Now if we were able to take Mason (a Lupul like salary trade throw in - and Lupul did work out as it happens), then that helps offset the number and quality of players that head to Columbus for either carter or Nash (you decide) with the other Columbus forward going to the Kings for a goalie.

This is bare bones and some other names and details would need to be added but it solves the salary cap issue for Howson and who knows, maybe Mason could flourish with Francois coaching him and would not have to be parked with the Marlies.

 

[ZBBM]

Cox is right on a couple of counts. First we don't know what Gardiner has in terms of final skill level. Two you can't declare him untouchable at this point.

Would I trade him for Nash?  Maybe. But only after very careful consideration.

 

[leafplasma]

If there is any truth to the Leaf/Nash rumours, this is how I see it going down from a Burke perspective.  Burke is not about to lose or blow up the farm and in essence destroy what he has worked hard to replenish in the last couple years plus.

Schenn, Reimer, Lombardi/Armstrong and a First or no deal.  This works with the cap and would be as far as I go for Nash.  Take it or just forget about the whole Nash fiasco.  This gives the Jackets their young goalie, it gives them Schenn who they wanted at the draft, another first round pick at what will likely be in the #15 range to go with their own lottery pick to help with their rebuild.  It also gives them cap relief by freeing them from the massive Nash deal during their rebuild and just one year of Lombardi or Armstrong as they become UFA's after next year.

If Howson starts asking for more than this I feel Burke walks. A deal like this makes us better for the playoff run and allows us to get a guy like Frattin up who along with Kuli give us more or a bang and crash third line.  Nash can slot in beside Grabs and Mac giving us a solid 1A and 1B and a beefed up 3rd line as Connoly slots in between Frats and Kuli.  Our D simply loses the Dman with the least amount of minutes this season and Komi/Aulie replaces Schenn.  Gus is given the ball to run with it the remainder of the season which he should have anyway and Scrivens or more likely a vet backup is brought into the fold to end the season. 

 

[leafplasma]

I don't think their overall value is too far off either, but I've already said the value of guys like Bernier are low because you never know if they'll become a Schneider or a Harding (not that Harding should be completely written off yet). With that said, this discussion is based off who Columbus would be more interested in. And I think if they're trading Rick Nash they'll be a lot more interested in looking for the potential home-run in Bernier than going the safe route with Reimer.

At any other position, I'd agree with you, but, in terms of goaltending, I think they might very well be more open to taking the safer route and getting a guy they know they can win games with, while maximizing their value with the other pieces in the deal.

I do not disagree with you, BH, but would suggest looking at the Columbus goaltending problem from another angle, namely the salary cap.

Columbus has too much money tied up in three non producing (relative to their respective salaries) assets, Nash, Carter and Mason.

The Kings, like the Leafs need a scoring forward but the Kings, unlike the Leafs, lack the means to eat a salary.

To get a goalie would only solve part of the Columbus goaltending dilemma.

The BJs would love to deal the mason contract. Now if we were able to take Mason (a Lupul like salary trade throw in - and Lupul did work out as it happens), then that helps offset the number and quality of players that head to Columbus for either carter or Nash (you decide) with the other Columbus forward going to the Kings for a goalie.

This is bare bones and some other names and details would need to be added but it solves the salary cap issue for Howson and who knows, maybe Mason could flourish with Francois coaching him and would not have to be parked with the Marlies.

I certainly would take Mason back in my deal with the Jackets and yes park him down on the farm and eat his salary.  He could be even able to resurrect his career, worth a shot for sure.  When the trade deadline has passed he may be the guy to back up Gus if we can make it work with the cap.

 

[Redleaf]

In my mind Gardiner has the makings to be one of the best young defensive men in the league in the next year or two. Do you trade that kind of potential away for a 27 year old player, even if that player is Rick Nash? I would be extremely disappointed if Burke includes this kid in any deal unless its in a package for Brayden Schenn or Jordan Eberle. In other words, the age and future potential have to match up a little better.

 

[BC Buds Fan]

I don't think we're overvaluing Gardiner at all -- he's got amazing composure with the puck, and is a great skater.  And he's only 21.  While he's not untradeable, I really think they should protect him -- he'll be a pretty awesome player.  For the record, I think Schenn is having a tough year but he can be great, and he's young too.  Let these kids mature, they have one of the tougher jobs out there.  Having said that, I think Schenn and Aulie play a similar style of game, so it could be that one of them has to go.

 

[Zee]

Steve Simmons thinks we can get Nash if we trade Kessel+

 

[bustaheims]

Steve Simmons thinks we can get Nash if we trade Kessel+

That may be the first time I've seen Steve Simmons credited with thinking.

 

[caver]

Steve Simmons thinks we can get Nash if we trade Kessel+

That may be the first time I've seen Steve Simmons credited with thinking.

;D ;D

 

[bustaheims]

DarrenDreger: Price too high for Flyers(at moment) for Nash.  May re-engage later. JVR,Bobrovski, Schenn or Couturier believed to be part of asking price.

 

[maplesyrup]

DarrenDreger: Price too high for Flyers(at moment) for Nash.  May re-engage later. JVR,Bobrovski, Schenn or Couturier believed to be part of asking price.

Just saw that... Maybe Philly can make it work minus Schenn/Couturier + a combination of a leser prospect and a pick. Either way. Ugh.

 

[maplesyrup]

Giroux/Nash  ... Spooky good.

 

[bustaheims]

Just saw that... Maybe Philly can make it work minus Schenn/Couturier + a combination of a leser prospect and a pick. Either way. Ugh.

Like I've been saying, the cost to acquire Nash is going to be extremely high, and, most likely, not a deal that actually makes the team better.

 

[leafplasma]

Hopefully the 6-1 loss today and the Jackets looking as brutal as ever cements the notion in Howson's head to blow up this team and deal away Nash.  I think if it happens though it goes right down to the wire.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

DarrenDreger: Price too high for Flyers(at moment) for Nash.  May re-engage later. JVR,Bobrovski, Schenn or Couturier believed to be part of asking price.

You know, I really don't think that's an absurd asking price really. Especially since JVR and Bob haven't really met expectations yet. Then again, it says that's just part of it, so I'm unsure what the rest would be.