Rick Nash potentially available

[Kin]

RE the cap drop, is the NHLPA really going to cave on that one with Fehr in place?  The NHL created this cap system when they pretty much dominated the lockout in terms of having the ability to win every PR battle.  Revenues grew every year under their system.  Where is the incentive for the players to cut back their earnings? What could the NHL possibly give them in return?

Like everything having to do with labour disputes the issue is really about how committed the players are to standing firm on an issue. You're right, it doesn't make sense for them to cave on the issue but it made even less sense in the NFL and the players caved on the revenue issue there too.

Fehr's not a dope. If the players aren't willing to miss paychecks then they've basically got no leverage.

 

[Corn Flake]

With all of the talk about Kessel being "the softest player in the league" I honestly wonder how he will do in the playoffs if we don't have someone on his line to help intimidate or at least create some space for him.  The neutral zone is going to be a tar pit in the postseason and Lupul/Kessel will never be able to take advantage of their speed game.

RE the cap drop, is the NHLPA really going to cave on that one with Fehr in place?  The NHL created this cap system when they pretty much dominated the lockout in terms of having the ability to win every PR battle.  Revenues grew every year under their system.  Where is the incentive for the players to cut back their earnings? What could the NHL possibly give them in return?

Kessel is Moginly.  He needs a Sundin.  Not necessarily a centre, but a linemate who is the #1 guy.  Mogilny was always at his best as a #2 and I think Kessel is the same.

I like Kessel a lot but like you said he needs someone both making room and taking attention away from him.  Soft schmoft.  When you are the key guy to shut down you get choked out no matter how gritty you are.  His point totals in the playoffs show he can produce despite a small body of work to look at. But he needs a Sundin.

As for the CBA, I really don't see a rollback in the future. How can they when the cap is based on revenue that has gone up substantially every year.  Maybe the cap floor drops which IMO is the only thing that should change and would lower the % of revenues for the players, which is of course what GB will be after given what happened to the NBA.  The cap floor is unsustainable as it is now.  Different discussion.

 

[Bender]

With all of the talk about Kessel being "the softest player in the league" I honestly wonder how he will do in the playoffs if we don't have someone on his line to help intimidate or at least create some space for him.  The neutral zone is going to be a tar pit in the postseason and Lupul/Kessel will never be able to take advantage of their speed game.

RE the cap drop, is the NHLPA really going to cave on that one with Fehr in place?  The NHL created this cap system when they pretty much dominated the lockout in terms of having the ability to win every PR battle.  Revenues grew every year under their system.  Where is the incentive for the players to cut back their earnings? What could the NHL possibly give them in return?

Kessel is Moginly.  He needs a Sundin.  Not necessarily a centre, but a linemate who is the #1 guy.  Mogilny was always at his best as a #2 and I think Kessel is the same.

I like Kessel a lot but like you said he needs someone both making room and taking attention away from him.  Soft schmoft.  When you are the key guy to shut down you get choked out no matter how gritty you are.  His point totals in the playoffs show he can produce despite a small body of work to look at. But he needs a Sundin.

As for the CBA, I really don't see a rollback in the future. How can they when the cap is based on revenue that has gone up substantially every year.  Maybe the cap floor drops which IMO is the only thing that should change and would lower the % of revenues for the players, which is of course what GB will be after given what happened to the NBA.  The cap floor is unsustainable as it is now.  Different discussion.

Or even a Gary Roberts type. A guy who has decent hands, but is big, strong, and intimidates all the other guys on the ice. Maybe a Lucic type?

 

[maplesyrup]

Damn that Carter contract! I think he'd be such a great fit.

Edit: Not because he's a Roberts type of course.

 

[Kin]

As for the CBA, I really don't see a rollback in the future. How can they when the cap is based on revenue that has gone up substantially every year.  Maybe the cap floor drops which IMO is the only thing that should change and would lower the % of revenues for the players, which is of course what GB will be after given what happened to the NBA.  The cap floor is unsustainable as it is now.  Different discussion.

I think there are two things you're kind of glossing over here. The league made increased parity as much of a cornerstone of their post-lockout blueprint as increased profitability. Any sort of cut to the cap floor without a corresponding reduction to the ceiling reduces leaguewide parity. Florida's a perfect example of that. Spending to the cap floor has made them a competitive club this year when a lot of people were writing them off. I don't think that architecture is one the league wants to move away from.

But as to the bigger point of how they can push for a rollback after years of record revenue, well, they can with the same argument that the NFL used which was basically "Don't like it? Tough noogies, jerks. We're billionaires. We don't eat off football". Not expecting the league to push for the same strikes me as a longshot at best.

 

[Corn Flake]

Or even a Gary Roberts type. A guy who has decent hands, but is big, strong, and intimidates all the other guys on the ice. Maybe a Lucic type?

And we've now come full circle .... player with many of these attributes: Rick Nash.

Ok maybe a little less intense, but he's big, strong, crashes and bangs, creates all kinds of room out there and won't back down physically... oh and unlike Roberts, Nash is as skilled as power forwards come.

Lucic .. yes but there might be 3 guys in the league who play that style and can produce points at the same time.

 

[Redleaf]

Damn that Carter contract! I think he'd be such a great fit.

Edit: Not because he's a Roberts type of course.

Yeah. The more I think about it the more I'd like to see Carter as a Leaf. If Burke could somehow absorb that contract, but I really dont see that happening.

 

[Corn Flake]

As for the CBA, I really don't see a rollback in the future. How can they when the cap is based on revenue that has gone up substantially every year.  Maybe the cap floor drops which IMO is the only thing that should change and would lower the % of revenues for the players, which is of course what GB will be after given what happened to the NBA.  The cap floor is unsustainable as it is now.  Different discussion.

I think there are two things you're kind of glossing over here. The league made increased parity as much of a cornerstone of their post-lockout blueprint as increased profitability. Any sort of cut to the cap floor without a corresponding reduction to the ceiling reduces leaguewide parity. Florida's a perfect example of that. Spending to the cap floor has made them a competitive club this year when a lot of people were writing them off. I don't think that architecture is one the league wants to move away from.

But as to the bigger point of how they can push for a rollback after years of record revenue, well, they can with the same argument that the NFL used which was basically "Don't like it? Tough noogies, jerks. We're billionaires. We don't eat off football". Not expecting the league to push for the same strikes me as a longshot at best.

I think this needs a separate thread to get into much further and I was just throwing out some thoughts on the subject since it was mentioned. 

The league might like the high floor to encourage parity but how many "have not" owners will be at the table demanding more breathing room, at the same time I'm not sure the teams loaded to the gills with contracts and happy to spend to the cap are going to agree to drop the ceiling by $10 or more mil and then probably asked to drop millions more into revenue sharing.

I think at the rate revenue is climbing its far greater than they originally anticipated when they signed this deal and at some point it puts too much strain on the lower end clubs who probably aren't seeing any revenue increases (some maybe even less than in 2005)

Anyway.. do we have another thread for this already? 

 

[Bender]

Or even a Gary Roberts type. A guy who has decent hands, but is big, strong, and intimidates all the other guys on the ice. Maybe a Lucic type?

And we've now come full circle .... player with many of these attributes: Rick Nash.

Ok maybe a little less intense, but he's big, strong, crashes and bangs, creates all kinds of room out there and won't back down physically... oh and unlike Roberts, Nash is as skilled as power forwards come.

Lucic .. yes but there might be 3 guys in the league who play that style and can produce points at the same time.

Ok, but can we really make a pitch that could rival some other teams oozing with talent?

 

[Champ Kind]

Or even a Gary Roberts type. A guy who has decent hands, but is big, strong, and intimidates all the other guys on the ice. Maybe a Lucic type?

And we've now come full circle .... player with many of these attributes: Rick Nash.

Ok maybe a little less intense, but he's big, strong, crashes and bangs, creates all kinds of room out there and won't back down physically... oh and unlike Roberts, Nash is as skilled as power forwards come.

Lucic .. yes but there might be 3 guys in the league who play that style and can produce points at the same time.

Ok, but can we really make a pitch that could rival some other teams oozing with talent?

Tha depends on lots of factors: salary cap, Nash's no-trade, and other teams who want to add him.

Truthfully, I'd have to think that Toronto is on the shortlist of teams who need Nash, likely have the assets and resources to land him, and have the desire to make a big deal.

 

[Moot Point]

To touch on aquiring Carter, how about our 1st, 2nd and Schenn for Carter and their 1st.  I know their 1st is gold but this is win-win for both sides.

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

To touch on aquiring Carter, how about our 1st, 2nd and Schenn for Carter and their 1st.  I know their 1st is gold but this is win-win for both sides.

no way they give up their first ..they're trying to rebuild

 

[CarltonTheBear]

To touch on aquiring Carter, how about our 1st, 2nd and Schenn for Carter and their 1st.  I know their 1st is gold but this is win-win for both sides.

CBJ 1st >>> TOR 1st and 2nd
Carter > Schenn

 

[Moot Point]

But CBJ gets rid of Carter's awful salary and gives them lots of cap room.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

But CBJ gets rid of Carter's awful salary and gives them lots of cap room.

While long, Carter's contract isn't awful salary-wise. And they just willingly acquired it (and paid a fair bit to do so) less than a year ago. They aren't going to look to dump him 36 games into his time with the team, regardless of his attitude. If they trade him it won't be a salary-dump type move.

 

[Kin]

But CBJ gets rid of Carter's awful salary and gives them lots of cap room.

But that assumes that Carter's contract is such an anchor that they need to bribe a team to take him. I don't think that's true. Columbus would probably rather take a 7th round pick for Carter than deal away their 1st.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Pierre LeBrun is reporting that Jack Johnson might be available in LA. An offer based around around Bernier and Johnson for Nash would not only make sense for both teams but be very difficult to beat.

 

[leafplasma]

Pierre LeBrun is reporting that Jack Johnson might be available in LA. An offer based around around Bernier and Johnson for Nash would not only make sense for both teams but be very difficult to beat.

Not so sure on that.  Bernier has a save % of .900 to Reimer's .906 despite the fact we are blasting Reimer for being in a sophomore slump.  Bernier is doing this on a stingy LA team that has allowed the 3rd fewest GA in the NHL.  Reimer has better career numbers and more NHL games unders his belt to boot.  So I think replacing Reimer in a trade instead of Bernier is a wash or even an upgrade from the Jackets perspective.  Jack Johnson has turned into a defensive nightmare from the back end although he is a mobile puck moving dman still.  Luke Schenn was in the Jackets sights when he was drafted which is why Fletcher traded up and the Jackets ended up having to take Filatov.

I think Reimer, Schenn and a 1st round pick gets this done and if it doesn't I don't want Nash.  A guy like Lombardi, Armstrong or Mac would need to be included for cap implications.

Basically what I am saying though is Bernier and Johnson is not as difficult to beat as you make it out to be.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Not so sure on that.  Bernier has a save % of .900 to Reimer's .906 despite the fact we are blasting Reimer for being in a sophomore slump.  Bernier is doing this on a stingy LA team that has allowed the 3rd fewest GA in the NHL.  Reimer has better career numbers and more NHL games unders his belt to boot.  So I think replacing Reimer in a trade instead of Bernier is a wash or even an upgrade from the Jackets perspective.

I do think there needs to be something said about Bernier's potential though. I've thought for years that goalies like Bernier don't carry very much value in the NHL because of their lack of experience, which is why you see a team like Vancouver holding onto Schneider until he finally gets to play in a large number of games. Once/if they reach that point their value explodes. Bernier hasn't been able to get there because of Quick's emergence. But his top-end potential is dramatically higher than Reimer, whether or not he reaches it is of course unknown.

With Reimer I think what you see is what you get. I'm not saying he won't ever improve, but I doubt he'll ever rise much above the level of an average starting goalie. For a team like Columbus, or any team for that matter, that's not exactly very attractive. Bernier might have more of a "boom or bust" projection on him, but considering the amount of average starters floating around the league Columbus would probably rather take a chance on him than Reimer.

 

[leafplasma]

Not so sure on that.  Bernier has a save % of .900 to Reimer's .906 despite the fact we are blasting Reimer for being in a sophomore slump.  Bernier is doing this on a stingy LA team that has allowed the 3rd fewest GA in the NHL.  Reimer has better career numbers and more NHL games unders his belt to boot.  So I think replacing Reimer in a trade instead of Bernier is a wash or even an upgrade from the Jackets perspective.

I do think there needs to be something said about Bernier's potential though. I've thought for years that goalies like Bernier don't carry very much value in the NHL because of their lack of experience, which is why you see a team like Vancouver holding onto Schneider until he finally gets to play in a large number of games. Once/if they reach that point their value explodes. Bernier hasn't been able to get there because of Quick's emergence. But his top-end potential is dramatically higher than Reimer, whether or not he reaches it is of course unknown.

With Reimer I think what you see is what you get. I'm not saying he won't ever improve, but I doubt he'll ever rise much above the level of an average starting goalie. For a team like Columbus, or any team for that matter, that's not exactly very attractive. Bernier might have more of a "boom or bust" projection on him, but considering the amount of average starters floating around the league Columbus would probably rather take a chance on him than Reimer.

I guess if you consider Bernier was a first round number 11 pick the same year Reimer was drafted in the fourth round.  In fact 4 goalies were picked in the first round that year, a goalie draft and Reimer witnessed 10 other goalies drafted before him.  Stat wise Reimer put up 2.81 and a .910 stat line to Berniers 2.70 .908 his draft year.  Now players are not drafted on stats alone but from that year on through Junior and the lower pro ranks Reimer has put up better numbers as a whole.  Was Reimer undervalued in that draft year, Bernier overvalued, who knows.  Reimer has a tag on him right now as a future top starter in this league, it hinges on what he did last year and we are seeing it now in RW basing that performance on giving him an extended leash this season when Gus clearly should have likely been given the reigns.  Reimer is playing in a hockey market and his name is everywhere.  I doubt that Bernier's trade value at this point is any higher then Reimers with all things considered.