Sandin sent to the Marlies

[ZBBM]

Sandin deserves to be on the roster more than Ceci.  This is a consequence of a Dubas decision that hurts the team.

What Dubas decision?

To trade for Ceci.  And if the response is he "had to" to get of Zaitsev, then the argument has to be that this particular trade was literally the only one available to him.

 

[ZBBM]

Sandin deserves to be on the roster more than Ceci.  This is a consequence of a Dubas decision that hurts the team.

Deserves isn't necessarily relevant right now.

It's real relevant if you are looking at a one-year window with Muzzin and Barrie.

Now, you would be absolutely right if Sandin had never played in the AHL.

 

[Kaberle15]

Sandin deserves to be on the roster more than Ceci.  This is a consequence of a Dubas decision that hurts the team.

What Dubas decision?

I'm guessing sign Ceci instead of walk away from his arbitration.

However, Ceci surprised me. He clearly should not be Rielly's partner (that should be Dermott as soon as he is back in game shape), but he could be an above average 5th guy.

He had an awful 1st game but after that he is starting to feel comfortable and we could even notice some good plays (not only the bad ones) but he is clearly not a top pair guy.

The big question is: If the Leafs had walked away from Ceci's arbitration, would Gardiner accept that 4.5 from the Leafs (I think so). And would the Leafs be better of ? (Also yes IMO).

So this is the Dubas Decision.

 

[herman]

I didn't want to because it does feel like I was off on my first point. But I do think the fact that both Marincin and Holl being used on the PK right now are big reasons Sandin is going back down.

On point #3, this means that the Leafs can decide their 4th line based off merit and not because of what simply fits under the cap. With Sandin, it was pretty much guaranteed that Petan and Shore were goners because of their $750k+ AAVs. Now the play on the ice will decide which two of the following the Leafs can keep: Petan, Shore, Timashov, Spezza. Gotta think Spezza might be sweating a little bit right now.

I like Petan and his last outing or two showed some Ennis in this game, literally jumping through checks on the wall to force the puck deep. At the same time, Timashov, if consistent, can provide the same. Petan has backup centre capability in his favour, but...

Shore vs Spezza looks like it might land in Shore's favour because in addition to RH centre and draw winning, he actually plays defensively and is quite a bit faster.

Ultimately, the Leafs don't have bad options here. The worst case scenario is Timashov is waived and claimed, and I kind of think that'll be avoided by a) Timashov outplaying Petan and staying up anyway; b) Timashov playing so poorly that he is waived but not claimed due to said poor play.

Thanks for taking the advice to cycle the 4th line/bottom pair to keep them playing hungry for the early stretch of games, coach!

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I like Petan and his last outing or two showed some Ennis in this game, literally jumping through checks on the wall to force the puck deep. At the same time, Timashov, if consistent, can provide the same. Petan has backup centre capability in his favour, but...

Shore vs Spezza looks like it might land in Shore's favour because in addition to RH centre and draw winning, he actually plays defensively and is quite a bit faster.

Ultimately, the Leafs don't have bad options here. The worst case scenario is Timashov is waived and claimed, and I kind of think that'll be avoided by a) Timashov outplaying Petan and staying up anyway; b) Timashov playing so poorly that he is waived but not claimed due to said poor play.

Thanks for taking the advice to cycle the 4th line/bottom pair to keep them playing hungry for the early stretch of games, coach!

Petan's already cleared waivers so I'd imagine he'll be going down before those expire.

I was also wrong saying the Leafs could keep 2 of those forwards. It's just 1, assuming they go with 12F and 7D which I think is the logical move. So only 1 of Petan, Shore, Spezza, and Timashov can stick around once we're healthy (barring a future trade). That player will make up the 4th line with Gauthier and Moore/Kapanen. I would guess in Babcock's eyes Shore has the advantage there, but I also feel like Dubas won't want to give up on Spezza so early. Also, the (very early/limited sample size) possession numbers for these players are interesting:

Spezza 71.1%
Petan 70.7%
Shore 49.1%
Timashov 46.9%

They likely each have 2 games left to make their case.

 

[AvroArrow]

To trade for Ceci.  And if the response is he "had to" to get of Zaitsev, then the argument has to be that this particular trade was literally the only one available to him.

So, we're just going to assume he had better options and chose the bad option because he's a moron?

 

[herman]

To trade for Ceci.  And if the response is he "had to" to get of Zaitsev, then the argument has to be that this particular trade was literally the only one available to him.

So, we're just going to assume he had better options and chose the bad option because he's a moron?

He is JFJ 2.0 after all

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/1183800483938480129

Excited to see this pairing in a slightly different uniform next season.

 

[herman]

The plan for Sandin hasn't really changed...

The taste of NHL speed (and Abdelkader's elbow shoulder tricep) will give context to playing top shutdown minutes in the AHL with Liljegren.

 

[Guilt Trip]

https://twitter.com/joshuakloke/status/1183800483938480129

Excited to see this pairing in a slightly different uniform next season.

Going Wednesday so I'm kind of glad he got sent down! Agree, I think they may be our 2nd/3rd pair next season depending on cash!

 

[Highlander]

I think Gravel has more to his game than you think.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I think Gravel has more to his game than you think.

I'm hoping you're right. Never hurts having quality D men.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/EarlSchwartz27/status/1183823734802661381

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Sandin deserves to be on the roster more than Ceci.  This is a consequence of a Dubas decision that hurts the team.

Deserves isn't necessarily relevant right now.

It's real relevant if you are looking at a one-year window with Muzzin and Barrie.

Now, you would be absolutely right if Sandin had never played in the AHL.

If your vision is this season and only this season it may explain why you post on message boards and not manage professional sports teams.

 

[herman]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-right-thing-sending-rasmus-sandin-back-ahl/

Sandin averaged 12:13 across his first six NHL games, with absolutely no power-play time and very limited use on the penalty kill, and he wasn?t likely to see that change any time soon. Baked into all the promise the coach could see when he smoothly executed a controlled zone exit or jumped forward to halt a rushing opponent was a fear that his development might stall during the long stretches of inactivity a third-pairing defenceman often endures.

The question wasn?t so much is Sandin ready to be a NHLer right now ? the eye test plus positive Corsi, scoring chance and expected goals numbers screamed ?yes? ? but might both the player and organization be better served by having him spend a second season with the Marlies?

Babcock came out of a meeting with Sandin and general manager Kyle Dubas unsure if the Swede even viewed the demotion as bad news.

?He knows how many minutes he was playing,? said Babcock. ?When you?re sitting there and you know you?re not getting to go out there and you?d like to be going out there, it?s not as much fun.

?Now when you?re 27 and that?s your job in the National League, that?s a lot of fun. When you?re 18 or whatever he is, it?s not a lot of fun.?

It's a pretty easy call.

 

[ZBBM]

To trade for Ceci.  And if the response is he "had to" to get of Zaitsev, then the argument has to be that this particular trade was literally the only one available to him.

So, we're just going to assume he had better options and chose the bad option because he's a moron?

So, we're just going to assume that every move he makes is correct because he's not a moron?

 

[Highlander]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-right-thing-sending-rasmus-sandin-back-ahl/

Sandin averaged 12:13 across his first six NHL games, with absolutely no power-play time and very limited use on the penalty kill, and he wasn?t likely to see that change any time soon. Baked into all the promise the coach could see when he smoothly executed a controlled zone exit or jumped forward to halt a rushing opponent was a fear that his development might stall during the long stretches of inactivity a third-pairing defenceman often endures.

The question wasn?t so much is Sandin ready to be a NHLer right now ? the eye test plus positive Corsi, scoring chance and expected goals numbers screamed ?yes? ? but might both the player and organization be better served by having him spend a second season with the Marlies?

Babcock came out of a meeting with Sandin and general manager Kyle Dubas unsure if the Swede even viewed the demotion as bad news.

?He knows how many minutes he was playing,? said Babcock. ?When you?re sitting there and you know you?re not getting to go out there and you?d like to be going out there, it?s not as much fun.

?Now when you?re 27 and that?s your job in the National League, that?s a lot of fun. When you?re 18 or whatever he is, it?s not a lot of fun.?

It's a pretty easy call.

Ya play the kid more than 25 a night in all situations.  Let him even refine further so when he steps up next year he is #3 or #4 range with lots of playing time. He certainly was a bit of a revelation.  His play at the end of the Marlies playoffs was not so great and I was concerned about him, but he has been very good. Nice to know what we have in the lad.

 

[ZBBM]

Sandin deserves to be on the roster more than Ceci.  This is a consequence of a Dubas decision that hurts the team.

Deserves isn't necessarily relevant right now.

It's real relevant if you are looking at a one-year window with Muzzin and Barrie.

Now, you would be absolutely right if Sandin had never played in the AHL.

If your vision is this season and only this season it may explain why you post on message boards and not manage professional sports teams.

I love these kind of comments.  Yes, by all means you're right: none of us can legitimately criticize anyone or anything unless they are in our particular specialty.  Next time you get a burnt steak at your local grille I'm sure you'll just smile and eat it because you aren't a chef yourself.

 

[ZBBM]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-right-thing-sending-rasmus-sandin-back-ahl/

Sandin averaged 12:13 across his first six NHL games, with absolutely no power-play time and very limited use on the penalty kill, and he wasn?t likely to see that change any time soon. Baked into all the promise the coach could see when he smoothly executed a controlled zone exit or jumped forward to halt a rushing opponent was a fear that his development might stall during the long stretches of inactivity a third-pairing defenceman often endures.

The question wasn?t so much is Sandin ready to be a NHLer right now ? the eye test plus positive Corsi, scoring chance and expected goals numbers screamed ?yes? ? but might both the player and organization be better served by having him spend a second season with the Marlies?

Babcock came out of a meeting with Sandin and general manager Kyle Dubas unsure if the Swede even viewed the demotion as bad news.

?He knows how many minutes he was playing,? said Babcock. ?When you?re sitting there and you know you?re not getting to go out there and you?d like to be going out there, it?s not as much fun.

?Now when you?re 27 and that?s your job in the National League, that?s a lot of fun. When you?re 18 or whatever he is, it?s not a lot of fun.?

It's a pretty easy call.

And I take it Babcock also went on to explain why they even bothered to keep Sandin up in the first place, knowing as they did that he would just get sheltered minutes, little PK and no PP, blah blah blah.

So, if Abdelkader doesn't elbow him ... what?

Like a lot of Babcock's explanations, it's half-baked.  And if it's all about cap management, then it's back in Dubas's lap.

Here's a proposition: the Leafs defense is better when Sandin is in it. Does anyone want to argue that?

 

[Guilt Trip]

Here's a proposition: the Leafs defense is better when Sandin is in it. Does anyone want to argue that?

We'll see in the next 6 games or so. We think it is better with him but there's nothing to compare it with yet. I don't have an issue with them sending him down. He's going to play a lot for the Marlies and with Liljegren to start. I think he'll be back at some point this year. Kid's good.