Shanahan/Players end of season press events

[Frank E]

When Burke was brought on board there was a lot of talk about the deep and talented staff he was hiring too.

Just to add to that, some people are suggesting that they're happy that Hunter and Dubas are in charge of stuff...good building blocks, etc...

What has either of those two proved at the NHL level? 

A prospective GM could have a pretty good argument in wanting to bring in a more experienced front office for such a great rebuilding task.

And Shanahan's argument would likely be, if that's the case then they're not a good match for us. 

Hunter and Dubas have done nothing at the NHL level, but at least they usher in a new perspective and effectively end the reign of the Old Boys' Club, whatever that's worth.  And if Shanahan plans on drafting and developing, one could argue that Hunter's reputation for spotting amateur talent will translate to better player selection.

I don't want to sound as though I don't think Hunter is any good, I really don't know.

What I do know is that the Knights didn't have much going for them until they moved into a great new building in London, and were able to recruit better players by being able to show them that they'd be playing in front of 9000 fans every home game.  That's a pretty strong selling point for a young player, as opposed to playing in a whole bunch of lousy rinks in front of 1500 fans.

I'm just saying that Hunter had a lot more to offer a player to acquire them...I wouldn't put it all on a purported ability to spot amateur talent.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

When Burke was brought on board there was a lot of talk about the deep and talented staff he was hiring too.

Just to add to that, some people are suggesting that they're happy that Hunter and Dubas are in charge of stuff...good building blocks, etc...

What has either of those two proved at the NHL level? 

A prospective GM could have a pretty good argument in wanting to bring in a more experienced front office for such a great rebuilding task.

And Shanahan's argument would likely be, if that's the case then they're not a good match for us. 

Hunter and Dubas have done nothing at the NHL level, but at least they usher in a new perspective and effectively end the reign of the Old Boys' Club, whatever that's worth.  And if Shanahan plans on drafting and developing, one could argue that Hunter's reputation for spotting amateur talent will translate to better player selection.

I don't want to sound as though I don't think Hunter is any good, I really don't know.

What I do know is that the Knights didn't have much going for them until they moved into a great new building in London, and were able to recruit better players by being able to show them that they'd be playing in front of 9000 fans every home game.  That's a pretty strong selling point for a young player, as opposed to playing in a whole bunch of lousy rinks in front of 1500 fans.

I'm just saying that Hunter had a lot more to offer a player to acquire them...I wouldn't put it all on a purported ability to spot amateur talent.

If you and me can think those things, what are the odds people within the game wouldn't as well?  I'm sure there is to some degree (and as a fan of a rival OHL team we always like to pretend it's true) but if it were just that, or predominantly that, he wouldn't get the praise he does from the hockey world.

This is just one from Ryan Kennedy of The Hockey News:

@THNRyanKennedy 

A note on the Leafs' new co-interim GM Mark Hunter: Scouts and execs from other teams have told me they love him as a hockey mind

 

[Coco-puffs]

When Burke was brought on board there was a lot of talk about the deep and talented staff he was hiring too.

Just to add to that, some people are suggesting that they're happy that Hunter and Dubas are in charge of stuff...good building blocks, etc...

What has either of those two proved at the NHL level? 

A prospective GM could have a pretty good argument in wanting to bring in a more experienced front office for such a great rebuilding task.

And Shanahan's argument would likely be, if that's the case then they're not a good match for us. 

Hunter and Dubas have done nothing at the NHL level, but at least they usher in a new perspective and effectively end the reign of the Old Boys' Club, whatever that's worth.  And if Shanahan plans on drafting and developing, one could argue that Hunter's reputation for spotting amateur talent will translate to better player selection.

I don't want to sound as though I don't think Hunter is any good, I really don't know.

What I do know is that the Knights didn't have much going for them until they moved into a great new building in London, and were able to recruit better players by being able to show them that they'd be playing in front of 9000 fans every home game.  That's a pretty strong selling point for a young player, as opposed to playing in a whole bunch of lousy rinks in front of 1500 fans.

I'm just saying that Hunter had a lot more to offer a player to acquire them...I wouldn't put it all on a purported ability to spot amateur talent.

If you look and London's current roster:

11 players are OHL Priority Draft Selections
1 player is CHL Import Draft Selection
7 acquired in Trades
5 were brought in as Free Agents

Yes, you are partially correct that the nice building and past decade of success probably lured those 5 free agents on to the team.  CHL Import draft selections don't have to play in the CHL once drafted, so you could probably chalk that one up to being able to sell the player on the team.  The other 18 (75%) players were traded for or selected in the OHL priority draft including their biggest stars (Domi and Marner). 

I don't have a history of how they acquired their players each year, but to have won their division 8 of the last 12 years and played in 4 memorial cups (one as host team though) during that time is a testament that the Hunters know how to build junior teams, of which, drafting and developing players is a huge part.

I'm not saying all of this will lead to success in the NHL- but it is a pretty good history.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

When Burke was brought on board there was a lot of talk about the deep and talented staff he was hiring too.

Just to add to that, some people are suggesting that they're happy that Hunter and Dubas are in charge of stuff...good building blocks, etc...

What has either of those two proved at the NHL level? 

A prospective GM could have a pretty good argument in wanting to bring in a more experienced front office for such a great rebuilding task.

And Shanahan's argument would likely be, if that's the case then they're not a good match for us. 

Hunter and Dubas have done nothing at the NHL level, but at least they usher in a new perspective and effectively end the reign of the Old Boys' Club, whatever that's worth.  And if Shanahan plans on drafting and developing, one could argue that Hunter's reputation for spotting amateur talent will translate to better player selection.

I don't want to sound as though I don't think Hunter is any good, I really don't know.

What I do know is that the Knights didn't have much going for them until they moved into a great new building in London, and were able to recruit better players by being able to show them that they'd be playing in front of 9000 fans every home game.  That's a pretty strong selling point for a young player, as opposed to playing in a whole bunch of lousy rinks in front of 1500 fans.

I'm just saying that Hunter had a lot more to offer a player to acquire them...I wouldn't put it all on a purported ability to spot amateur talent.

If you look and London's current roster:

11 players are OHL Priority Draft Selections
1 player is CHL Import Draft Selection
7 acquired in Trades
5 were brought in as Free Agents

Yes, you are partially correct that the nice building and past decade of success probably lured those 5 free agents on to the team.  CHL Import draft selections don't have to play in the CHL once drafted, so you could probably chalk that one up to being able to sell the player on the team.  The other 18 (75%) players were traded for or selected in the OHL priority draft including their biggest stars (Domi and Marner). 

I don't have a history of how they acquired their players each year, but to have won their division 8 of the last 12 years and played in 4 memorial cups (one as host team though) during that time is a testament that the Hunters know how to build junior teams, of which, drafting and developing players is a huge part.

I'm not saying all of this will lead to success in the NHL- but it is a pretty good history.

Hunter is apparently known for putting thousands and thousands of kms into scouting players each season.

 

[Highlander]

I say let Hunter run the show, who needs Shanny anyway:
http://theleafsnation.com/2015/4/14/more-like-brendan-shamahan-mycolumn

 

[Omallley]

I say let Hunter run the show, who needs Shanny anyway:
http://theleafsnation.com/2015/4/14/more-like-brendan-shamahan-mycolumn

That was about the worst article/argument I've read in the history of the internet.

 

[Kin]

I say let Hunter run the show, who needs Shanny anyway:
http://theleafsnation.com/2015/4/14/more-like-brendan-shamahan-mycolumn

That was about the worst article/argument I've read in the history of the internet.

I don't think it was meant to be taken seriously.

 

[Omallley]

I say let Hunter run the show, who needs Shanny anyway:
http://theleafsnation.com/2015/4/14/more-like-brendan-shamahan-mycolumn

That was about the worst article/argument I've read in the history of the internet.

I don't think it was meant to be taken seriously.

Neither was my hyperbole. Nik, I've lost my touch.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

- they're taking an analytical approach to the game, and plan to build the team through a draft and develop philosophy, which is basically uncharted territory for this organization. 

Except that absolutely 100% was the exact same thing people were saying about Burke. He didn't plan on doing it via analytics no, but he was going to invest more in scouting and development and he was bringing the Marlies to Toronto and so on and so forth.

It's the same thing, just new packaging.

Yeah, I totally get that.  I try to look at things objectively when it comes to this team, but first and foremost I'm a long-time fan and my heart eclipses reason sometimes.  I've been burned many times, and like a faithful dog I come back for more.  When you look at this team historically, we're probably all guilty of that to some degree or we would have all jumped ship.

With regard to the current management, so far Shanahan has been saying the right things.  He's acquired some picks, moved out some contracts, some of them bad, and hired some bright minds.  So far, so good.  With Burke I was also excited about his arrival, but when he started acquiring assets at the expense of what turned out to be some of the Leafs highest picks in decades he sort of lost me.  That among other things.

I think seeing whether things will be different this time around starts with what Shanahan does in the off-season, especially leading up to the draft.  I'm hopefully he sticks  to his plan like he says he is going to, and that things will be different this time.  We shall see...

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't really recall Burke going on about focusing significantly on scouting/development but that could just be memory failing me.

 

[Frank E]

I don't really recall Burke going on about focusing significantly on scouting/development but that could just be memory failing me.

Wasn't there talk of the Leafs having the biggest scouting department in the league or something under Burke?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't really recall Burke going on about focusing significantly on scouting/development but that could just be memory failing me.

Wasn't there talk of the Leafs having the biggest scouting department in the league or something under Burke?

That's probably true.

 

[Highlander]

half were paid to be drinking buddies or to help him find his car keys

 

[Kessel Run]

- they're taking an analytical approach to the game, and plan to build the team through a draft and develop philosophy, which is basically uncharted territory for this organization. 

Except that absolutely 100% was the exact same thing people were saying about Burke. He didn't plan on doing it via analytics no, but he was going to invest more in scouting and development and he was bringing the Marlies to Toronto and so on and so forth.

It's the same thing, just new packaging.

JFJ was in charge when the Marlies moved to Toronto FWIW.

 

[Kin]

JFJ was in charge when the Marlies moved to Toronto FWIW.

There you go. I'm so used to being sold the same thing I'm mixing up who sold me what.

 

[ZBBM]

As someone noted earlier, every time there's a major management shakeup there's a new buzzline on how this GM will finally fix things.  Shanahan certainly looks on the right path, but since we won't know for sure for at least 3 or 4 more years it's probably a good idea to not get our hopes up just yet.

 

[mr grieves]

As someone noted earlier, every time there's a major management shakeup there's a new buzzline on how this GM will finally fix things.  Shanahan certainly looks on the right path, but since we won't know for sure for at least 3 or 4 more years it's probably a good idea to not get our hopes up just yet.

There's also, in sports, the tendency toward melodramatic narratives full of heroes and villains, which we know is nonsense, but which crop up in the coverage of moves like these.

I think our knowing that's nonsense is part of the skeptical reaction to the Shanahan sales job, and I suppose (hope) it'll also be part of a pushback against the narrative that the current team is a misbegotten assemblage of bad-character losers we're finally, at long last, being saved from. The Shanahan hype -- his descending from on high with a plan to finally lead the team from the wilderness -- relies on that equally, sillily tidy negative valuation of the current team.

If instead we look at the last few years for what they were -- one GM fast-tracked a rebuild and constructed an imperfect/ flawed team that the next GM, though a series of poor decisions, turned into an absolute mess -- then the thing to look for in the process over the next 3-4 years is clear. It's not a savior GM (or team president) but a bit more patience and caution laying the foundation (contra Burke), a bit more intelligence in deciding when the team's competitive and determining which talent to roll over (contra Nonis). It's not an overheated narrative of deliverance or hyperbolic sales pitch. Just good, sensible management.

 

[Pick]

As someone noted earlier, every time there's a major management shakeup there's a new buzzline on how this GM will finally fix things.  Shanahan certainly looks on the right path, but since we won't know for sure for at least 3 or 4 more years it's probably a good idea to not get our hopes up just yet.

This is so true. I read in another post how Shanahan is a great thinker, blah, blah, blah.....all mythmaking. We all heard it before, Dryden, Fergy, Burke......

After almost 50 disappointing seasons, to me, Moses aint Moses until he parts the Red Sea.....Shanahan included.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

To me one of the joys of sports is optimism stemming from either a new season, new GM, new players, etc.  There's always reason to be skeptical and at the same time there's no reason to be with a new person until they give you reason to be.  It's not contradictory to be disappointed with past management but still be optimistic for new - they're all distinct from one another.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

To me one of the joys of sports is optimism stemming from either a new season, new GM, new players, etc.  There's always reason to be skeptical and at the same time there's no reason to be with a new person until they give you reason to be.  It's not contradictory to be disappointed with past management but still be optimistic for new - they're all distinct from one another.

Rielly/Nylander/Strome or Marner is the best trio of under-22 players I've ever seen this team have. That's largely where my optimism is coming from.