Stamkos Contract Negotiations

[bustaheims]

Do we know what Crosby makes solely from Canadian endorsements?

We don't have exact figures, no, but his endorsement contracts are national. For Stamkos, most of them would be regional, which would be significantly less lucrative. If he were to get national endorsements, he'd get them regardless of what city he played - you don't develop national appeal based on what team you play for, and, as much as we like to think of Leafs Nation as being country wide, there isn't a high enough concentration of Leaf fans outside Southern Ontario to make the dollars make sense for the advertisers.

 

[Kin]

I wouldn't buy anything because either of these guys endorsed it.  I do think however this point highlights the fact that having a star player in your market, which Stamkos would be closest to since Sundin left, has appeal.  I just think it would resonate even more with the kid in Markham whose house is two blocks over from where Stamkos grew up. 

Ok, but what kind of stuff did Sundin do? The Chunky soup commercials and that one Nike commercial with the goalie turned cab driver? We're still talking pretty small potatoes.

Sure.  But my assumption and thought process would also apply to McDavid if he were a Leaf today as opposed to an Oiler.

McDavid would have some big heat on him right away because he's the big deal prospect but after a few years he'd have to start having some major successes to keep that visibility going. Stamkos is a very good player but in a league where not many guys are making endorsement dollars a top 5 or top 10 guy without many individual accomplishments isn't going to generate a ton of heat no matter where he's from.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I wouldn't buy anything because either of these guys endorsed it.  I do think however this point highlights the fact that having a star player in your market, which Stamkos would be closest to since Sundin left, has appeal.  I just think it would resonate even more with the kid in Markham whose house is two blocks over from where Stamkos grew up. 

Ok, but what kind of stuff did Sundin do? The Chunky soup commercials and that one Nike commercial with the goalie turned cab driver? We're still talking pretty small potatoes.

Sure.  But my assumption and thought process would also apply to McDavid if he were a Leaf today as opposed to an Oiler.

McDavid would have some big heat on him right away because he's the big deal prospect but after a few years he'd have to start having some major successes to keep that visibility going. Stamkos is a very good player but in a league where not many guys are making endorsement dollars a top 5 or top 10 guy without many individual accomplishments isn't going to generate a ton of heat no matter where he's from.

Sundin was also part of a pretty big McDonald's ad with Wayne Gretzky.

But the best example is probably Doug Gilmour.  He's still featured in Toronto ads.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

You have to consider the level of appeal a celebrity has and how that impacts sales when talking about endorsements. So, for hockey players, you're looking at a small segment in the US, and a much less valuable population in Canada - so, endorsement values are going to be relatively small, especially when compared to a Tom Brady or a LeBron James, etc. Hockey players just aren't really celebrities in the US the way they are up here.

Also, really the #1 thing that drives endorsement dollars are equipment sales. Basketball players do great because even people who don't go near a basketball court wear sneakers. Golfers do better because that's a whole industry of selling pro-level gear to amateurs. There's not enough people who play hockey regularly for equipment sales to be a big deal and it's not like shoulder pads or skates are things that people wear casually.

Beyond the occasional guy like Brady or Manning I'd be surprised if Football players make a ton off the field either.

I mentioned the PowerAde ad that Stamkos recently did in my edit as I thought that product fell more in line with what you mention. Even people who don't break a sweat on most days still find the appeal in drinking a bottle of sweetened salt water. I supposed I was also assuming ads would appear nationally, when in reality if he does appear in ads (assuming Toronto), they're likely regional. And those national ads pay a heck of a lot more than regional, at least in the US market.

 

[Kin]

Sundin was also part of a pretty big McDonald's ad with Wayne Gretzky.

Was it pretty big in a national sense? Or was it big on hockey broadcasts? As busta is pointing out doing a commercial isn't likely to be some huge 7 figure windfall if it's just aimed at hockey fans. Or Leafs fans.

And I have to tell you I live in Toronto and consume Toronto media and I don't see Dougie too often.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I mentioned the PowerAde ad that Stamkos recently did in my edit as I thought that product fell more in line with what you mention. Even people who don't break a sweat on most days still find the appeal in drinking a bottle of sweetened salt water. I supposed I was also assuming ads would appear nationally, when in reality if he does appear in ads (assuming Toronto), they're likely regional. And those national ads pay a heck of a lot more than regional, at least in the US market.

When you mentioned the powerade commercial it made me realize that I ALREADY see Stamkos in more commercials/advertisements than I do basically every other Leaf player combined.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

I mentioned the PowerAde ad that Stamkos recently did in my edit as I thought that product fell more in line with what you mention. Even people who don't break a sweat on most days still find the appeal in drinking a bottle of sweetened salt water. I supposed I was also assuming ads would appear nationally, when in reality if he does appear in ads (assuming Toronto), they're likely regional. And those national ads pay a heck of a lot more than regional, at least in the US market.

When you mentioned the powerade commercial it made me realize that I ALREADY see Stamkos in more commercials/advertisements than I do basically every other Leaf player combined.

That's why I was surprised about the $$. I just assumed that would be a fairly lucrative campaign, given they're owned by Coca Cola and have had some pretty recognizable athletes endorsing their products.

 

[Kin]

I mentioned the PowerAde ad that Stamkos recently did in my edit as I thought that product fell more in line with what you mention. Even people who don't break a sweat on most days still find the appeal in drinking a bottle of sweetened salt water. I supposed I was also assuming ads would appear nationally, when in reality if he does appear in ads (assuming Toronto), they're likely regional. And those national ads pay a heck of a lot more than regional, at least in the US market.

But that's where you get back to whether or not someone drives sales to any real degree. While it's still pretty stupid, there's a direct thought process of using the same club as Jordan Speith or using the same shoes as Lebron James even if neither of those things will actually help you. "I want to play the sport like these guys, so I want to use the equipment they do" will sell stuff given that if you're going to play the sport you have to buy equipment anyway.

But how many people are going to start drinking powerade because Stamkos endorses it vs. Sidney Crosby endorsing Gatorade? And how important is Crosby to Gatorade when they also have Michael Jordan and Serena Williams and so on and so forth?

That's why the figures are as low as they are. These guys won't drive those sales that much and it's not like they're going to turn down 100k that could just as easily go to another guy.

 

[bustaheims]

That's why I was surprised about the $$. I just assumed that would be a fairly lucrative campaign, given they're owned by Coca Cola and have had some pretty recognizable athletes endorsing their products.

I get that thinking, but you're also looking at a product with a relatively low appeal level - sports drinks don't have a particularly large portion of the beverage market share - within a small market in Canada. So, if you're Coke, having a celebrity like Stamkos in an ad campaign, realistically, your best case scenario is probably driving sales up ~$200K (and that might be being very generous). How much are you willing to pay for that?

 

[LuncheonMeat]

I mentioned the PowerAde ad that Stamkos recently did in my edit as I thought that product fell more in line with what you mention. Even people who don't break a sweat on most days still find the appeal in drinking a bottle of sweetened salt water. I supposed I was also assuming ads would appear nationally, when in reality if he does appear in ads (assuming Toronto), they're likely regional. And those national ads pay a heck of a lot more than regional, at least in the US market.

But that's where you get back to whether or not someone drives sales to any real degree. While it's still pretty stupid, there's a direct thought process of using the same club as Jordan Speith or using the same shoes as Lebron James even if neither of those things will actually help you. "I want to play the sport like these guys, so I want to use the equipment they do" will sell stuff given that if you're going to play the sport you have to buy equipment anyway.

But how many people are going to start drinking powerade because Stamkos endorses it vs. Sidney Crosby endorsing Gatorade? And how important is Crosby to Gatorade when they also have Michael Jordan and Serena Williams and so on and so forth?

That's why the figures are as low as they are. These guys won't drive those sales that much and it's not like they're going to turn down 100k that could just as easily go to another guy.

I agree with you. I think I just overestimated what endorsements deals are worth when you're not named Jordan or Williams.

 

[bustaheims]

And I have to tell you I live in Toronto and consume Toronto media and I don't see Dougie too often.

Yeah. I can't remember the last time I saw an ad with Gilmour. I've seen more of Clark recently, and that's really only in the one "don't drink and drive" campaign that I can't imagine he got paid more than $25K for (if that).

 

[Kin]

I agree with you. I think I just overestimated what endorsements deals are worth when you're not named Jordan or Williams.

Well, it's sort of a vicious circle. The more famous you are, the more commercials you're probably going to be in. The more commercials you're in, the more famous you get and the higher your price.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

And I have to tell you I live in Toronto and consume Toronto media and I don't see Dougie too often.

Yeah. I can't remember the last time I saw an ad with Gilmour. I've seen more of Clark recently, and that's really only in the one "don't drink and drive" campaign that I can't imagine he got paid more than $25K for (if that).

He was in an Asus notebook a year or two ago.  Aired during tons of Leafs games.

My point being that he's what, 52, and 20 years removed from anything resembling Leafs success and he's still receiving money to endorse something. 

 

[hockeyfan1]

How taxes could have an impact on Stamkos' decision-making:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/tax-increase-could-hurt-canadian-nhl-nba-mlb-teams/

and considering that...
- 57 per cent NHL unrestricted free agents moved to teams with lower taxes