Stars @ Leafs - Dec. 5th, 7:00pm - LeafsTV, SN 590

[Tigger]

He wasn't responsible for both goals, jeebus, I've watched most of the year and, like I said, for a 4th line specialist he's fine.

He was covering Erik Cole right up to the point when Cole skated away from him and scored the first goal, and he took a stupid and lazy tripping penalty that the Stars capitalized on while he was in the box. He's maybe not directly responsible but I'd say that's just as bad as Rielly's -3 that got him benched.

As for the 4th line specialist comment, he's averaging 12:39 of even-strength ice time this season. Last season he averaged 11:31. Those are 3rd line minutes, not 4th. And he's being used in key situations like taking faceoffs on the top line. Jerred Smithson was a 4th line specialist. McClement is a key part of the teams top-9.

Franson, Kadri and Fraser were responsible for not getting scored on?

The whole play during the change was awful, if you want to single out Jay, that's fine, and I'll stick by my comment about his ability 5 on 5 and let the team decide how to utilize him as they see fit.

Fwiw I didn't think Rielly had that bad a game either.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Franson, Kadri and Fraser were responsible for not getting scored on?

What does this mean?  Threw me for a loop following this discussion.

 

[Tigger]

Franson, Kadri and Fraser were responsible for not getting scored on?

What does this mean?  Threw me for a loop following this discussion.

The Leafs killed the penalties they took against Dallas... it's a silly argument, still.

 

[Corn Flake]

Any good bars to watch this in in the downtown Toronto area?

Real Sports is the best. Get there early though.

Watched here, was good fun thanks.

Probably should have won the game in regulation, but a win's a win at this stage... Pumped for Sunday night now!

Be pumped for Saturday first!

Nice.  Were there enough TV's for ya?

The win was a step in the right direction and obviously two badly needed points. I wasn't expecting perfection by any stretch last night, but steps forward were seen and were encouraging.

Build from here.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

The whole play during the change was awful, if you want to single out Jay, that's fine, and I'll stick by my comment about his ability 5 on 5 and let the team decide how to utilize him as they see fit.

The line change was bad, but both defencemen and the centre were on the ice well before the rush occurred. It should have been a 3-on-3 rush but it turned into a 3-on-2 because McClement wasn't in good position and couldn't pick up his man. Granted, Ranger and Fraser would have probably been more effective defending that rush if they just dropped down to the ice and made snow angels. So it's not entirely his fault, but he does deserve some blame.

Fwiw I didn't think Rielly had that bad a game either.

I actually thought he was one of the best players in that game. I was just using that as an example of the inconsistent accountability Randy holds his players to. When Rielly, Gardiner, or Holland make mistakes they are benched. When Fraser, Ranger, or McClement make mistakes nothing happens.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

The Leafs killed the penalties they took against Dallas... it's a silly argument, still.

I expect better discipline from my 4th line specialist whose biggest role on the team is killing penalties. Last season he took 3 minor penalties in 48 games. This season he has 8 in 28.

 

[Corn Flake]

The whole play during the change was awful, if you want to single out Jay, that's fine, and I'll stick by my comment about his ability 5 on 5 and let the team decide how to utilize him as they see fit.

The line change was bad, but both defencemen and the centre were on the ice well before the rush occurred. It should have been a 3-on-3 rush but it turned into a 3-on-2 because McClement wasn't in good position and couldn't pick up his man. Granted, Ranger and Fraser would have probably been more effective defending that rush if they just dropped down to the ice and made snow angels. So it's not entirely his fault, but he does deserve some blame.
happens.

IIRC, McClement was out of gas. He wasn't able to make the line change and stayed out when the play turned over, which is why he couldn't get to him.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Granted, Ranger and Fraser would have probably been more effective defending that rush if they just dropped down to the ice and made snow angels. So it's not entirely his fault, but he does deserve some blame.

Wait, so this ISN'T proper defensive positioning?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

IIRC, McClement was out of gas. He wasn't able to make the line change and stayed out when the play turned over, which is why he couldn't get to him.

McClement got on the ice about 15 seconds before the goal was scored. He was in the play. He followed Cole through the neutral zone towards the Dallas zone for some reason while the puck was on the other side of the ice instead of maintaining position in the middle of the ice and Cole turned around and blew past him as the play entered the Leafs zone.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Wait, so this ISN'T proper defensive positioning?

It's like they forgot which one of them was supposed to play the right side.

 

[sneakyray]

mcclement should be a 4th line specialtist who kills more than 50% of their pk time in any given game but gets very little icetime otherwise.  but he plays way too much on the other 3 lines to be just a 4th line specialist.

orr and mclaren are the only 2 4th line specialists on the team...too bad their specialties are to do with brawling and nothing hockey-related.

 

[Boston Leaf]

cant beleive we won without Colton Orr in the line up

 

[Stickytape]

cant beleive we won without Colton Orr in the line up

I didn't think it was possible either, but the whole team really stepped up to fill the role of not really even fighting at all anymore.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

The Leafs killed the penalties they took against Dallas... it's a silly argument, still.

I expect better discipline from my 4th line specialist whose biggest role on the team is killing penalties. Last season he took 3 minor penalties in 48 games. This season he has 8 in 28.

Found this stat about McClement on Twitter:

@Hope_Smoke
Including the 6-0 loss to the Columbus Blue Jackets, Jay McClement has been on the ice for 12 of the 24 goals against the Leafs have allowed

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Sometimes I wonder if I'm just blacking out from time to time and tweeting as @Hope_Smoke.

 

[Strangelove]

The Leafs killed the penalties they took against Dallas... it's a silly argument, still.

I expect better discipline from my 4th line specialist whose biggest role on the team is killing penalties. Last season he took 3 minor penalties in 48 games. This season he has 8 in 28.

Found this stat about McClement on Twitter:

@Hope_Smoke
Including the 6-0 loss to the Columbus Blue Jackets, Jay McClement has been on the ice for 12 of the 24 goals against the Leafs have allowed

This doesn't surprise me. Granted, a chunk of those are on the PK but he just hasn't looked very mobile to me this year. If he was playing good defense his absolute ineffectiveness offensively wouldn't bother me but to me he looks bad all around. It feels like his defensive reputation is still riding on the coattails of some good PK work last year.

 

[Arn]

Any good bars to watch this in in the downtown Toronto area?

Real Sports is the best. Get there early though.

Watched here, was good fun thanks.

Probably should have won the game in regulation, but a win's a win at this stage... Pumped for Sunday night now!

Be pumped for Saturday first!

Nice.  Were there enough TV's for ya?

The win was a step in the right direction and obviously two badly needed points. I wasn't expecting perfection by any stretch last night, but steps forward were seen and were encouraging.

Build from here.

There certainly seems to be no lack of TVs showing the games when they're on anyway. I may try and catch Saturday's game in there again or else try Gretzky's as someone else suggested.

I suspect both would be VERY busy.

 

[TML fan]

I think that stat is relatively meaningless. All it tells me is that he was on the ice when goals were scored. So were 3-4 other players.

 

[Strangelove]

I think that stat is relatively meaningless. All it tells me is that he was on the ice when goals were scored. So were 3-4 other players.

It's less meaningless when coupled with observations about his play.

 

[TML fan]

I think that stat is relatively meaningless. All it tells me is that he was on the ice when goals were scored. So were 3-4 other players.

It's less meaningless when coupled with observations about his play.

Ok well I wasn't questioning your observations, but now that you mention it I completely disagree with them. I also think you'd only attach any weight to a stat like that if you blame just one player every time a goal is scored.