Steve Stamkos?

[bustaheims]

As much as I'd love for Stamkos to be a Leaf, I know it's not going to happen. I really hope he signs an extension with the Bolts this summer so we don't have to deal with a year full of absurd rumours and speculation about how he's sure to sign with the Leafs, only to see him re-sign with Tampa.

Looks like you've had a change of heart over the past year as well. What a thread

No. Under the right circumstances, I'd still love for Stamkos to be a Leaf. I just don't think the current circumstances are the right circumstances - and, even a year ago, I figured Shanny and Co. would recognize that, which is why I figured it's not going to happen.

 

[herman]

I would also want Hedman >> Stamkos for the Leafs, but I think Tampa Bay feels the same way for themselves.

 

[Kin]

Hedman would definitely be a trickier decision for me. I still think that without any legit goaltending options in the pipeline you really could be looking at 3 or 4 years of any UFA deal being burned off before the team is really ready.

 

[Redleaf]

Looks like you've had a change of heart over the past year as well. What a thread

Not to speak for busta, but a year is a pretty long time. I mean, I was a lot more on board with Stamkos just a month and a half ago pre-draft lottery than I am today.

Oh I know. Opinions change when circumstances do. It's been over a year since this thread started and there's still a few weeks to squeeze out of it.

 

[Misty]

Hedman would definitely be a trickier decision for me. I still think that without any legit goaltending options in the pipeline you really could be looking at 3 or 4 years of any UFA deal being burned off before the team is really ready.

Which is pretty much the crux of the case against investing in Stamkos. It's too early to know what we have, or what we need, so it seems like putting the cart before the horse to spend heavily in free agency until the other components of a winning team have been developed from within.

 

[Redleaf]

Hedman would definitely be a trickier decision for me. I still think that without any legit goaltending options in the pipeline you really could be looking at 3 or 4 years of any UFA deal being burned off before the team is really ready.

Which is pretty much the crux of the case against investing in Stamkos. It's too early to know what we have, or what we need, so it seems like putting the cart before the horse to spend heavily in free agency until the other components of a winning team have been developed from within.

There were more than a few good hockey minds saying that bringing in Babcock was putting the cart before the horse.  It was going to hinder the rebuild because he'll have the team playing too good to help the cause. They still found a way to secure the first OA pick. I guess my point is, I think their mindset is that you get the people you want when the opportunity presents itself, regradless of the timeframe. If that is in the fine print of the 'Shanaplan' than we'll see Stamkos pull over the Maple Leaf jersey next month. If it isn't we won't.

 

[Kin]

Hedman would definitely be a trickier decision for me. I still think that without any legit goaltending options in the pipeline you really could be looking at 3 or 4 years of any UFA deal being burned off before the team is really ready.

Which is pretty much the crux of the case against investing in Stamkos. It's too early to know what we have, or what we need, so it seems like putting the cart before the horse to spend heavily in free agency until the other components of a winning team have been developed from within.

No, I agree. I was just saying I think it applies equally to Hedman who's more or less the ideal sort of player they could add.

 

[Kin]

There were more than a few good hockey minds saying that bringing in Babcock was putting the cart before the horse.  It was going to hinder the rebuild because he'll have the team playing too good to help the cause.

Who said that?

 

[TBLeafer]

Team building differs on all teams and "Lightning" usually doesn't strike twice.

He can be Shanny's third long term signed player and fit into the rebuild just fine.

For those that want to pass on him, only want to argue based on the failures that they find, not the successes.

He is the BEST player in his prime another team will have a chance to sign since Gretzky got traded to LA.  A distant 2nd being players like Hossa and Parise.

It is unprecedented that a player of HIS caliber makes it to free agency.

It is unprecedented the sheer number of top tier prospects the Leafs have slated to come in and play their rookie season, save the triplets of Tampa and we know what that did for them.

Cold feet to want this not to happen, with a focus of only the NEGATIVE potential.

9 more days until we get to talk to him...

Stop debating AGAINST a precedent when there are NONE that happened prior.

 

[herman]

Team building differs on all teams and "Lightning" usually doesn't strike twice.

He can be Shanny's third long term signed player and fit into the rebuild just fine.

For those that want to pass on him, only want to argue based on the failures that they find, not the successes.

He is the BEST player in his prime another team will have a chance to sign since Gretzky got traded to LA.  A distant 2nd being players like Hossa and Parise.

It is unprecedented that a player of HIS caliber makes it to free agency.

It is unprecedented the sheer number of top tier prospects the Leafs have slated to come in and play their rookie season, save the triplets of Tampa and we know what that did for them.

Cold feet to want this not to happen, with a focus of only the NEGATIVE potential.

9 more days until we get to talk to him...

Stop debating AGAINST a precedent when there are NONE that happened prior.

Are you trying to forbid others from disagreeing with your interpretation, which has been demonstrated to be inadequate?

 

[TBLeafer]

There were more than a few good hockey minds saying that bringing in Babcock was putting the cart before the horse.  It was going to hinder the rebuild because he'll have the team playing too good to help the cause.

Who said that?

Come on now.  There was TONS of speculation about that very thing.

Whole articles written on "The Babcock Effect".

In truth, the perfect storm wasn't created for last season's tank, wasn't created until a team with no scoring depth, lost its best scorer thanks again to an uncalculated Phaneuf slapper, while the best prospect to replace that scoring was also out with a concussion.

Until that happened "The Babcock Effect" had become very real.

 

[herman]

There were more than a few good hockey minds saying that bringing in Babcock was putting the cart before the horse.  It was going to hinder the rebuild because he'll have the team playing too good to help the cause.

Who said that?

I sort of thought it, but mostly to assuage myself when Bob McKenzie reported that we were out of the running; Shanahan also relayed that story of what Mike said to him when he was first pitched: "Why would you guys want me if you're looking to get to the bottom for a bit?". Ultimately, Shanahan convinced Babcock to come here because he needed Babcock to establish a foundation in the Leafs' playing system (and professional living system, it would seem). In a lineup with a dearth of talent, we were able to stave off any of the Babcock advantages, but still lose without being an embarrassment.

It's quite different to ask a player to do the same thing when they have a more direct hand at the outcome.

 

[Kin]

Come on now.  There was TONS of speculation about that very thing.

Should be EASY to FIND then. That's PROVIDED you're interested in responding to QUESTIONS with ANSWERS.

 

[TBLeafer]

Team building differs on all teams and "Lightning" usually doesn't strike twice.

He can be Shanny's third long term signed player and fit into the rebuild just fine.

For those that want to pass on him, only want to argue based on the failures that they find, not the successes.

He is the BEST player in his prime another team will have a chance to sign since Gretzky got traded to LA.  A distant 2nd being players like Hossa and Parise.

It is unprecedented that a player of HIS caliber makes it to free agency.

It is unprecedented the sheer number of top tier prospects the Leafs have slated to come in and play their rookie season, save the triplets of Tampa and we know what that did for them.

Cold feet to want this not to happen, with a focus of only the NEGATIVE potential.

9 more days until we get to talk to him...

Stop debating AGAINST a precedent when there are NONE that happened prior.

Are you trying to forbid others from disagreeing with your interpretation, which has been demonstrated to be inadequate?

Its only been demonstrated to be inadequate by those here that focus around things that fail around the league to serve their agenda, while dismissing the things that do.

"This worked."

"Yeah but this falied."

"This worked."

"Yeah but this failed."

"This worked...."

And around and around and around we go.

 

[Kin]

In a lineup with a dearth of talent, we were able to stave off any of the Babcock advantages, but still lose without being an embarrassment.

Between guys like JVR, Kadri, Gardiner, Rielly and so on I don't know that what really plagued the team was a horrible lack of talent. I don't think, for instance, it was talent that separated the Leafs from New Jersey or Carolina.

 

[TBLeafer]

Come on now.  There was TONS of speculation about that very thing.

Should be EASY to FIND then. That's PROVIDED you're interested in responding to QUESTIONS with ANSWERS.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/breakaway_blog/2015/09/what-will-be-the-effect-of-the-babcock-effect-.html

Everyone keeps talking about the "Babcock effect," as if new Maple Leafs coach Mike Babcock is going to somehow turn the lemons he inherited from last year's team and turn them into playoff-bound lemonade.

That was back in September.

 

[Redleaf]

Come on now.  There was TONS of speculation about that very thing.

Should be EASY to FIND then. That's PROVIDED you're interested in responding to QUESTIONS with ANSWERS.

I get where your going with this. I put together a list of names and you systematically discredit each one.

 

[Kin]

https://www.thestar.com/sports/breakaway_blog/2015/09/what-will-be-the-effect-of-the-babcock-effect-.html

Everyone keeps talking about the "Babcock effect," as if new Maple Leafs coach Mike Babcock is going to somehow turn the lemons he inherited from last year's team and turn them into playoff-bound lemonade.

That was back in September.

That's an article responding to the idea that the "Babcock Effect" could take the team into the playoffs, not whether or not Babcock is so good the team can't possibly be bad enough for a top draft pick.

Regardless, it's still not someone actually advocating the idea.

 

[Bullfrog]

I'm good either way, though I don't see the urgency in signing him. And though it is wise to be cautious, I'm optimistic Matthews is going to be a top-5 centre (top 10 at least) within three years. In which case, Matthews/Kadri is a very good 1-2. I think the larger need is on defense and in goal.

 

[Kin]

I get where your going with this. I put together a list of names and you systematically discredit each one.

I am notorious for the way I apply scrutiny to claims.