Steve Stamkos?

[bustaheims]

In a way you are correct.  But a building is only as good as the year its oldest piece dates back to.

Well, I'm certainly glad you're not my architect, contractor, or head of my construction crew. A building is only as good as its foundation, no matter how old it is. The Leafs are still building their foundation.

 

[sneakyray]

the rebuild started after shanahans one year of evaluation.  really at the deadline in 2015 when nonis was still there the franson, santorelli for a first and leipsic.  I think this is the first post shanahan trade that involves players for a good pick. they just happened to already have nylander, reilly, sosh, brown and others in the system ready to be part of a rebuild.

but if you look at the moves up to the deadline of 2015 its just a mishmash of whatever but then it kicks in to players for picks (plus the clarkson trade!) so for me thats the start of the rebuild.

then it kicked into high gear at the draft and with babs taking over this year.  so by my math the rebuild is only less than 1.5 years old.

 

[TBLeafer]

In a way you are correct.  But a building is only as good as the year its oldest piece dates back to.

Well, I'm certainly glad you're not my architect, contractor, or head of my construction crew. A building is only as good as its foundation, no matter how old it is. The Leafs are still building their foundation.

Sorry, I'll clarify that then.  The year of the oldest piece of its foundation dates back to.

 

[bustaheims]

the rebuild started after shanahans one year of evaluation.  really at the deadline in 2015 when nonis was still there the franson, santorelli for a first and leipsic.  I think this is the first post shanahan trade that involves players for a good pick. they just happened to already have nylander, reilly, sosh, brown and others in the system ready to be part of a rebuild.

but if you look at the moves up to the deadline of 2015 its just a mishmash of whatever but then it kicks in to players for picks (plus the clarkson trade!) so for me thats the start of the rebuild.

then it kicked into high gear at the draft and with babs taking over this year.  so by my math the rebuild is only less than 1.5 years old.

That's basically the timeline I see, as well. The decision to go forward with the rebuild process started when Shanahan was hired, but, it wasn't until Carlyle was fired that the team began their concerted and intentional effort to tear down and rebuild. They were a bad team before that, but that was because they were poorly constructed in an effort to compete. Their offseason plans were clearly focused on improving the present, and they only made moves that addressed the future at points when it was clear the team wasn't going to make the playoffs that season. That really only changed this past summer.

 

[bustaheims]

Sorry, I'll clarify that then.  The year of the oldest piece of its foundation dates back to.

Your metaphor still doesn't make sense, nor is it accurate.

 

[TBLeafer]

A rebuild starts with the creation of blueprints.  It starts with the Shanaplan.

 

[TBLeafer]

Sorry, I'll clarify that then.  The year of the oldest piece of its foundation dates back to.

Your metaphor still doesn't make sense, nor is it accurate.

The oldest piece of the foundation of a new building is also generally the weakest and the first to crumble over time as the building ages.

 

[sneakyray]

A rebuild starts with the creation of blueprints.  It starts with the Shanaplan.

I can plan to build a new house.  I can draw up plans and get permits but until the physical site prep...until the shovels in the ground its still just a plan. 

didn't shanahan say himself when he was first hired that he didn't have a plan until he evaluated what they had in place and decided where to go from there?

I don't know...look at the trade history.  there is a stark change in how they do bussiness pre 2015 deadline and post.

 

[herman]

A rebuild starts with the creation of blueprints.  It starts with the Shanaplan.

I can plan to build a new house.  I can draw up plans and get permits but until the physical site prep...until the shovels in the ground its still just a plan. 

didn't shanahan say himself when he was first hired that he didn't have a plan until he evaluated what they had in place and decided where to go from there?

I don't know...look at the trade history.  there is a stark change in how they do bussiness pre 2015 deadline and post.

That stark change was brought to you by: Dubas.

 

[bustaheims]

The oldest piece of the foundation of a new building is also generally the weakest and the first to crumble over time as the building ages.

That's not necessarily true, but, you're getting closer. A foundation is only as strong as its weakest point, no matter how old it is.

 

[Frank E]

I'm going to go about this circular debate another way.

Let's say today is July 1st, they've already drafted Matthews (and a goalie at 30 and a defenseman at 31), and Shanahan called a press conference and just announced that they've signed Stamkos to a 7 year $70m contract.  Shanahan is glowing with pride, says that they've got a elite leader who leads by example, and that they're one step closer to building a strong contending team for the future.  Babcock asks for patience again from fans as this is just one step in the process, and that they've got a long way to go before they'll be a team that'll be competitive.  Stamkos says that he's excited about the opportunity to be part of this building process, and he himself echos Babcock's plea for patience, long road ahead, blah blah blah...

Now what do you do with the roster moving forward?

 

[TBLeafer]

A rebuild starts with the creation of blueprints.  It starts with the Shanaplan.

I can plan to build a new house.  I can draw up plans and get permits but until the physical site prep...until the shovels in the ground its still just a plan. 

didn't shanahan say himself when he was first hired that he didn't have a plan until he evaluated what they had in place and decided where to go from there?

I don't know...look at the trade history.  there is a stark change in how they do bussiness pre 2015 deadline and post.

Without that plan there is no rebuild. Only a withered, crumbled building that will one day just become a parking lot when the wrecking ball swings.

 

[Deebo]

They are building a hockey team guys, not a building.

 

[Coco-puffs]

I'm going to go about this circular debate another way.

Let's say today is July 1st, they've already drafted Matthews (and a goalie at 30 and a defenseman at 31), and Shanahan called a press conference and just announced that they've signed Stamkos to a 7 year $70m contract.  Shanahan is glowing with pride, says that they've got a elite leader who leads by example, and that they're one step closer to building a strong contending team for the future.  Babcock asks for patience again from fans as this is just one step in the process, and that they've got a long way to go before they'll be a team that'll be competitive.  Stamkos says that he's excited about the opportunity to be part of this building process, and he himself echos Babcock's plea for patience, long road ahead, blah blah blah...

Now what do you do with the roster moving forward?

Did we deal Bozak at the draft?  If not, we've still got the summer to deal him.  Greening and Michalek will probably have to stick around until the deadline and hopefully we can get something useful for either of them (3rd round picks to recover for Babs and Lou?).  Laich and Lupul are the biggest question mark... can they be useful?  Can they actually be traded?  Will they just be our veterans playing 4th line minutes.

For the rest- its an evaluation year.  We have lots of forwards who look ready but need a more than post-deadline playing time to see where they fit (Nylander, Brown, Hyman, Sosh).  We have some other RFA's who we don't know if they will be back but that will be addressed by the timeline you are speaking of (ie, qualified or not).  Most of them will be marlies and some may not pass through waivers so you may need to trade them for more futures or package them ala Grabner.

We have some new defensemen (Zaitsev and Carrick) to see where they fit in the depth chart.  If they play well and evolve into #2 and #4 defensemen (and Rielly looks like a #1) we may just a goalie away from being a very good young team that just needs more experience to become a contending team for the 6 years left in Stamkos' contract

 

[bustaheims]

Now what do you do with the roster moving forward?

Well, you still need to address the holes in the roster. While it's great that the team drafted a goalie and a defenceman at 30 and 31, odds are they're both at least 2 seasons away from being full-time NHLers, and there's a very good chance neither of them end up being the types of players the Leafs need to plug their holes. So, the team probably still finds itself looking for a #1 defenceman and a starting goalie - but, now, they have $10M less in cap space to work with. With Stamkos on board, it's probably safe to say the Bozak will have to be moved out. That will free some cap space, depending on how the trade is structured. They also have to somehow address the Lupul situation, which is going to be difficult this summer - if not impossible. I imagine they'd also try to shed Michalek, Laich, and Greening's contracts as cheaply as possible - which is also going to be a difficult task. Without being able to shed those contracts, the team likely doesn't improve any other areas this summer - they'll want to leave a good chunk of cap space open for Nylander, Marner, and Matthews' bonuses, so they don't have to carry them into next season.

So, basically, it becomes a difficult situation (in the short-term, at least), and the improvements to the team have to come largely from players who are unknown quantities at the NHL level.

 

[sneakyray]

I'm going to go about this circular debate another way.

Let's say today is July 1st, they've already drafted Matthews (and a goalie at 30 and a defenseman at 31), and Shanahan called a press conference and just announced that they've signed Stamkos to a 7 year $70m contract.  Shanahan is glowing with pride, says that they've got a elite leader who leads by example, and that they're one step closer to building a strong contending team for the future.  Babcock asks for patience again from fans as this is just one step in the process, and that they've got a long way to go before they'll be a team that'll be competitive.  Stamkos says that he's excited about the opportunity to be part of this building process, and he himself echos Babcock's plea for patience, long road ahead, blah blah blah...

Now what do you do with the roster moving forward?

I would play jvr with stamkos to try and move him for a kings ransom at the deadline.  I would sign pap and try and inflate his value to deal at the deadline (admittedly didn't work this past year but if he does it again proves it wasn't a fluke season) while still giving the kids room to grow.

I would continue to rotate in most of the kids (hyman, brown, kapanen, gauthier) while giving any young'uns who deserve the chance for a fulltime role (maybe a guy like nylander and a dman like valiev or loov)

if they are ready I would put marner and matthews low in the lineup and give them decent pp time plus favourable matchups as much as possible in order to let them get their feet wet.

all the others can just play out their deals and maybe be traded for mid to low round picks if anyone wants them.

then finish low enough in the standings to pick top 5 maybe top 10 if they overachieve.

goaltending is the only thing I have no idea what to do about!

 

[princedpw]

I had no idea there was this much to say about this guy.

 

[Deebo]

Well, you still need to address the holes in the roster. While it's great that the team drafted a goalie and a defenceman at 30 and 31, odds are they're both at least 2 seasons away from being full-time NHLers, and there's a very good chance neither of them end up being the types of players the Leafs need to plug their holes. So, the team probably still finds itself looking for a #1 defenceman and a starting goalie - but, now, they have $10M less in cap space to work with.

They are still building, they don't need to find those pieces this summer. They can go with what they have on D and see how they develop. They could easily go with Bernier and a cheap vet back up for next season too.

With Stamkos on board, it's probably safe to say the Bozak will have to be moved out. That will free some cap space, depending on how the trade is structured. They also have to somehow address the Lupul situation, which is going to be difficult this summer - if not impossible. I imagine they'd also try to shed Michalek, Laich, and Greening's contracts as cheaply as possible - which is also going to be a difficult task. Without being able to shed those contracts, the team likely doesn't improve any other areas this summer - they'll want to leave a good chunk of cap space open for Nylander, Marner, and Matthews' bonuses, so they don't have to carry them into next season.

There is really no rush to address any of this, the contracts you are talking about have mostly one year left on them and two in Lupul and Bozak's case.

Michalek, Bernier, Greening and Laich contracts all expire next year so they can look to fill those holes you mention above next season or even the year after. They would have seen another year or two of development from the younger players and would have a better idea of what those holes actually are.

So, basically, it becomes a difficult situation (in the short-term, at least), and the improvements to the team have to come largely from players who are unknown quantities at the NHL level.

It really doesn't become that difficult. They can fit Stamkos in this coming season's cap without moving any contracts and if the improvement doesn't come from within, they have another top draft pick.

 

[cabber24]

I'm going to go about this circular debate another way.

Let's say today is July 1st, they've already drafted Matthews (and a goalie at 30 and a defenseman at 31), and Shanahan called a press conference and just announced that they've signed Stamkos to a 7 year $70m contract.  Shanahan is glowing with pride, says that they've got a elite leader who leads by example, and that they're one step closer to building a strong contending team for the future.  Babcock asks for patience again from fans as this is just one step in the process, and that they've got a long way to go before they'll be a team that'll be competitive.  Stamkos says that he's excited about the opportunity to be part of this building process, and he himself echos Babcock's plea for patience, long road ahead, blah blah blah...

That would be an amazing day! What realistic situation could be better then that? Matthews and Stamkos on the same day.

 

[nutman]

I am with TB, our rebuild is well under way. We have pieces that have been in place for a season or two. so I would say our rebuild is further along then most seem to want to admit. One more thing for those of you out there thinking that we will be there for a bottom five pick next season... keep dreaming.

Signing SS would be a step up in the rebuild all in it self. I for one am all on board to sign him, and see what this young team can do with one of the best coaches out there.