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Tank Nation UNITE!!!

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bustaheims said:
Potvin29 said:
I always view it as this:  I'd rather they either make the playoffs or get as high a draft pick as possible.  Me?  I cannot control either outcome, so when the game starts, I still enjoy them playing well and making good plays and get excited when they score.
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That's where I'm at, too. I either want them to be a clear playoff team or a clear basement team. Being in between doesn't really do much to help them.
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X3.... it's like groundhog day with this team....over and over...
 
Potvin29 said:
Joe S. said:
Potvin29 said:
Joe S. said:
Potvin29 said:
Obviously 2003 was really bad (and the worst draft to not have a 1st/make a poor 2nd round selection in) but it's a bit of cherry-picking to take that draft and say that they've drafted terribly in recent memory.  The picks they've made haven't been amazing or terrible but they've found some quality players with later picks.  All teams have missteps at the draft, it's the nature of the beast.
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I didn't really cherry pick - I brought up 4 drafts - and it's a bad combination of asset mismanagement and poor picks - in retrospect...

I'm sure we could find other teams with a similar stretch of incompetence - but I kinda don't care about the other teams.
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Well you picked 4 drafts, eliminated all of their best picks because they were subsequently dealt and then criticized the Leafs' for being terrible at drafting.  And then the example of a draft pick you provided was Doherty, a bad 2nd round pick from arguably their worst draft performance in 20 years.  That one was very bad, but generally they haven't been terrible at drafting.

But I think CtB covered the major points already.
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I've since clarified that I meant asset mismanagement - you know I'm not someone who is trying to generalize or gloss over facts...

The leafs mishandled their assets over that time period - I'm not way off base on that assertion...

And again, I highlighted one pick as an example, not as a generalization.
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I know, and that's fair enough.  I just think it completely changes what the criticism is.  But I trust that's what you meant to get across, and it's hard to argue.
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also - I should point out that I wrote all this while I was on a conference call - so my attention was kind... of ... divided!
 
Joe S. said:
Potvin29 said:
Joe S. said:
Potvin29 said:
Joe S. said:
Potvin29 said:
Obviously 2003 was really bad (and the worst draft to not have a 1st/make a poor 2nd round selection in) but it's a bit of cherry-picking to take that draft and say that they've drafted terribly in recent memory.  The picks they've made haven't been amazing or terrible but they've found some quality players with later picks.  All teams have missteps at the draft, it's the nature of the beast.
Click to expand...

I didn't really cherry pick - I brought up 4 drafts - and it's a bad combination of asset mismanagement and poor picks - in retrospect...

I'm sure we could find other teams with a similar stretch of incompetence - but I kinda don't care about the other teams.
Click to expand...

Well you picked 4 drafts, eliminated all of their best picks because they were subsequently dealt and then criticized the Leafs' for being terrible at drafting.  And then the example of a draft pick you provided was Doherty, a bad 2nd round pick from arguably their worst draft performance in 20 years.  That one was very bad, but generally they haven't been terrible at drafting.

But I think CtB covered the major points already.
Click to expand...

I've since clarified that I meant asset mismanagement - you know I'm not someone who is trying to generalize or gloss over facts...

The leafs mishandled their assets over that time period - I'm not way off base on that assertion...

And again, I highlighted one pick as an example, not as a generalization.
Click to expand...

I know, and that's fair enough.  I just think it completely changes what the criticism is.  But I trust that's what you meant to get across, and it's hard to argue.
Click to expand...

also - I should point out that I wrote all this while I was on a conference call - so my attention was kind... of ... divided!
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Come on man, prioritize! Tmlfans first, then work.
 
I'm starting to wonder if the Leafs brass really have the stomach to go through a proper teardown / rebuild - that's a lot of $$$ and corporate sponsorship to gamble with. Aside from Dregger and those puppets doing their best to overvalue some very marginal players on a very bad hockey team has their been any kind of indication from management that they're finally going to blow it up?
 
Madferret said:
I'm starting to wonder if the Leafs brass really have the stomach to go through a proper teardown / rebuild - that's a lot of $$$ and corporate sponsorship to gamble with. Aside from Dregger and those puppets doing their best to overvalue some very marginal players on a very bad hockey team has their been any kind of indication from management that they're finally going to blow it up?
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No. Just speculation.

When you talk about gambling with corporate sponsorship/dollars, I think its safe to say they've been doing that for years.

I would think gutting the team now would be the easiest gamble to take and have the least amount of risk compared to any other viable option.

I think it would be a hell of a lot more risky to trade away all the youth for aging veterans, for instance, wouldn't you?
 
If MLSE doesn't decide to go for a complete rebuild then they have finally lost me after 50
years as a fan.

There is no logical way on God's green earth that they are going to be able to do anything
other than squeak in a last playoff spot and then go one round - possibly.

This alone should be enough to prove to Bell and Rogers that their investment is poop -
and Rogers has a 12 year NHL deal that swings on the Leafs being good.

The dollars in merch and ratings (and thus adverts etc) for a winning team in TO would
be astronomical - even more so if they actually built a team that could contend for a
long period of time.

Take the punch to the groin for 3-4 years and do it right.

Also.....fire/demote Nonis. You can't entrust the guy that created most of this mess to clean it up.

 
I think we should bring Bibeau and Gibson up on an alternating pattern to let them get used to being in the NHL environment and start them when possible.....
 
If nothing else it is going to be an interesting season if only to view the troop movments out and the draft picks in  and how many of these players will wear Blue and White next season, whether Nonis will be fired and who the new coach will be.
It can't get any worse than this, or can it?
 
To do this tank properly, they should probably be increasing Kessel's minutes instead of decreasing them. 13 minutes/-4, increase that to 23 minutes and you could potentially have -7.
 
Chris said:
To do this tank properly, they should probably be increasing Kessel's minutes instead of decreasing them. 13 minutes/-4, increase that to 23 minutes and you could potentially have -7.
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I think they should dress him as a D-man.  He does have a right-handed shot after all.

Man I hope they start moving guys before they all get (more) injured.  I'm starting to worry about that more than anything else.  With NYI starting to fortify, hopefully people will start to move now.  :-\

Where is that toppling domino pic go??? 
 
lamajama said:
If MLSE doesn't decide to go for a complete rebuild then they have finally lost me after 50
years as a fan.

There is no logical way on God's green earth that they are going to be able to do anything
other than squeak in a last playoff spot and then go one round - possibly.

This alone should be enough to prove to Bell and Rogers that their investment is poop -
and Rogers has a 12 year NHL deal that swings on the Leafs being good.

The dollars in merch and ratings (and thus adverts etc) for a winning team in TO would
be astronomical - even more so if they actually built a team that could contend for a
long period of time.

Take the punch to the groin for 3-4 years and do it right.

Also.....fire/demote Nonis. You can't entrust the guy that created most of this mess to clean it up.
Click to expand...
I'm with you, I never missed a game but this year I have tuned them out and actually only like to watch them when their loosing hoping to see a shower of jerseys and boos. I believe there are a large portion of fans who are starting to tune them out for the first time ever. Things absolutely need to be rebuilt properly there really will be consequences to MLSE if they don't.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
bustaheims said:
4-19-1, guys. 4-19-1. That's how you tank!
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It's pretty nuts that not too long ago we were talking about drafting 10th-12th. The team really pulled through here.
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Goes to show that there is a lot of heart on the roster and a lot of guys who want to see this team improve.
 
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