The 2014 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

[Andy007]

Whats up with Dickey....jeez after winning the Cy Young he has done squat. Every game is an an excuse: it was windy, it was sunny, too cold, too foggy....

What was last night's excuse?  He's been a slow starter even going back to his Cy Young season:

I thought he was fine too...it was Cecil that gave me a heart attack, then promptly bailed himself out.

Runners made it to 2nd and 3rd off of Dickey with none out. Cecil walked one wih 1st base open and struck the next two out, all on 12 pitches, 8 strikes. What part of that gave you a heart attack and why was that one walk worse than Dickey's contribution that inning?

 

[Frank E]

Whats up with Dickey....jeez after winning the Cy Young he has done squat. Every game is an an excuse: it was windy, it was sunny, too cold, too foggy....

What was last night's excuse?  He's been a slow starter even going back to his Cy Young season:

I thought he was fine too...it was Cecil that gave me a heart attack, then promptly bailed himself out.

Runners made it to 2nd and 3rd off of Dickey with none out. Cecil walked one wih 1st base open and struck the next two out, all on 12 pitches, 8 strikes. What part of that gave you a heart attack and why was that one walk worse than Dickey's contribution that inning?

I stand corrected then...I went upstairs, got changed, came back down and saw what you described...didn't know Dickey was pitching earlier in that inning.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Josh Johnson having Tommy John surgery tomorrow.

 

[Derk]

Wow. Jays blew a 6-1 lead, McGowan couldn't get an out in the 5th and Diaz grounds into a double play with the bases loaded to end the game. Starting pitching seems to want to continue to be a huge problem, and the hitters seem to want to not produce in late inning clutch situations.

 

[bustaheims]

Wow. Jays blew a 6-1 lead, McGowan couldn't get an out in the 5th and Diaz grounds into a double play with the bases loaded to end the game. Starting pitching seems to want to continue to be a huge problem, and the hitters seem to want to not produce in late inning clutch situations.

If McGowan can't go more than 4 innings on a regular basis (he's only managed to get an out in the 5th inning once this season), he needs to go back to the bullpen.

 

[Derk]

I agree busta. Having a starter go 4 innings is something that only should be done on an emergency basis. The Jays have far too many starters who haven't gone deep into games, and I am worried that the bullpen is going to get worn out again this year.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Wow. Jays blew a 6-1 lead, McGowan couldn't get an out in the 5th and Diaz grounds into a double play with the bases loaded to end the game. Starting pitching seems to want to continue to be a huge problem, and the hitters seem to want to not produce in late inning clutch situations.

If McGowan can't go more than 4 innings on a regular basis (he's only managed to get an out in the 5th inning once this season), he needs to go back to the bullpen.

The problem is the next alternative right now is probably Happ, and you will probably run into the same issue with him.

 

[bustaheims]

The problem is the next alternative right now is probably Happ, and you will probably run into the same issue with him.

Probably, yeah. Same is probably true of Drabek or Romero. I might be tempted to try out Nolin and see how he handles the bigs. He's done well in the minors, and, I know he's only just starting his AAA career, but, it's also not unusual for pitchers to make the jump straight from AA.

 

[Andy007]

Starting pitching seems to want to continue to be a huge problem, and the hitters seem to want to not produce in late inning clutch situations.

That rotation was always going to be a huge problem; it was the main concern coming into this season.

As for the hitters not producing clutch and/or late, well, you're talking aboutJonathan Diaz, a guy who is barely a minor leaguer. The problem is the bench and depth, and that was another huge concern coming into this season.

 

[Peter D.]

With the 8-man bullpen, I could live with the Jays piggybacking McGowan and Redmond every 5th day, as they've pretty much been doing thus far.  If you could get 6, maybe 7 innings if lucky out of both, then turn it over to the bullpen, it could work.  Of course the issue is the quality of pitching they are getting.  It's a nice feel good story and all, but you can't afford to keep giving away games like this.  McGowan is better suited in a long relief role in the pen.

Unfortunately, the main reason why this is being done is the lack of depth.  Right now, there really isn't a better alternative out there.  Happ and his entitlement can shove it.

 

[Derk]

Starting pitching seems to want to continue to be a huge problem, and the hitters seem to want to not produce in late inning clutch situations.

That rotation was always going to be a huge problem; it was the main concern coming into this season.

As for the hitters not producing clutch and/or late, well, you're talking aboutJonathan Diaz, a guy who is barely a minor leaguer. The problem is the bench and depth, and that was another huge concern coming into this season.

If the lack of clutch was just this game, I wouldn't have said anything other than being disappointed. However, this has been a recurring theme over the past few seasons no matter who is up. The Jays just can't seem to get that big hit late when they need it often enough.

 

[Andy007]

Starting pitching seems to want to continue to be a huge problem, and the hitters seem to want to not produce in late inning clutch situations.

That rotation was always going to be a huge problem; it was the main concern coming into this season.

As for the hitters not producing clutch and/or late, well, you're talking aboutJonathan Diaz, a guy who is barely a minor leaguer. The problem is the bench and depth, and that was another huge concern coming into this season.

If the lack of clutch was just this game, I wouldn't have said anything other than being disappointed. However, this has been a recurring theme over the past few seasons no matter who is up. The Jays just can't seem to get that big hit late when they need it often enough.

They got 3 3run HR's the other day, and a couple of big ones yesterday. I agree that clutch hitting has plagued this team in the past, but this year the hitting is actually pretty good. The lack of any bench or decent pinch hitting has really hurt though, as has the awful starting pitching.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Weird (potentially) coincidence, but according to the Pitchf/x data, the top 4 games so far this season with the most # of strikes called outside the strike zone involve the Jays.

 

[TML fan]

Weird (potentially) coincidence, but according to the Pitchf/x data, the top 4 games so far this season with the most # of strikes called outside the strike zone involve the Jays.

Probably a coincidence. I'm sure the Jays are getting half of those calls in their favour.

 

[bustaheims]

Weird (potentially) coincidence, but according to the Pitchf/x data, the top 4 games so far this season with the most # of strikes called outside the strike zone involve the Jays.

Probably a coincidence. I'm sure the Jays are getting half of those calls in their favour.

Possibly. I did notice that Buerhle got a lot of called strikes on pitches just off the outside edge of the plate in his last start.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Weird (potentially) coincidence, but according to the Pitchf/x data, the top 4 games so far this season with the most # of strikes called outside the strike zone involve the Jays.

Probably a coincidence. I'm sure the Jays are getting half of those calls in their favour.

Possibly. I did notice that Buerhle got a lot of called strikes on pitches just off the outside edge of the plate in his last start.

FWIW, none of the 4 were Buehrle starts.

 

[bustaheims]

FWIW, none of the 4 were Buehrle starts.

Interesting, because, he was definitely getting a lot of close pitches that were out of the zone called in his favour that day.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

FWIW, none of the 4 were Buehrle starts.

Interesting, because, he was definitely getting a lot of close pitches that were out of the zone called in his favour that day.

May have still been high just not to the level of these other games.

 

[L K]

Wow. Jays blew a 6-1 lead, McGowan couldn't get an out in the 5th and Diaz grounds into a double play with the bases loaded to end the game. Starting pitching seems to want to continue to be a huge problem, and the hitters seem to want to not produce in late inning clutch situations.

If McGowan can't go more than 4 innings on a regular basis (he's only managed to get an out in the 5th inning once this season), he needs to go back to the bullpen.

The problem is the next alternative right now is probably Happ, and you will probably run into the same issue with him.

I'm really not a big Happ fan but the guy at least averaged 5.4 IP/start last year (I took out the 1.1 IP start where he got a line-drive to the face).  It would be one thing if McGowan was limited to 4 innings because of pitch count, but if he's limited to 4 innings because he's giving up 4-6 runs, might as well run with Happ who has shown that he can get a little deeper into ballgames with at least similar results.

I still wish they went harder after Ervin Santana a little earlier to maybe get him before the Braves had a clear rotational need.  Well either that or actually compete for a guy like Tanaka.

 

[L K]

Weird (potentially) coincidence, but according to the Pitchf/x data, the top 4 games so far this season with the most # of strikes called outside the strike zone involve the Jays.

Probably a coincidence. I'm sure the Jays are getting half of those calls in their favour.

Possibly. I did notice that Buerhle got a lot of called strikes on pitches just off the outside edge of the plate in his last start.

FWIW, none of the 4 were Buehrle starts.

Early in the game Buehrle paints corners.  As he fatigues a little bit down the stretch he gets benefit calls because he consistently gets the ball over the plate.  I wish Navarro framed pitches a little better because I think it would really help our pitchers when they struggle.  He calls a good game, but he's brutal defensively.