The Brian Burke Thread

[Zee]

Right now the anger is because we've mortgaged the future and the fixer-upper house we bought is falling apart.

Wait, Kessel aside how did the Leafs mortgage their future under Burke?

I see little patience for a true rebuild though, not pointing at you when I say that either, just in general. There are definitely people on this site that have promoted it and could live with some awful hockey to that end but I don't see the average Leafs fan thinking like that, fwiw.

I have to disagree with the "little patience for a true rebuild".  When Burke was first hired I think the general consensus of fans was that Burke would be a true leader, know what it takes to build a winner and the fanbase would be willing to live through the years of pain.  Burke came right in and started to sell the "quicker ways to a rebuild" and it hasn't panned out 4 years later.  Had he come in and said "we're going to build through the draft" and started to acquire top 5 picks the last few seasons, I think the fans would be a lot more optimistic at this point in time, especially if we had a great center prospect.

 

[pnjunction]

Right now the anger is because we've mortgaged the future and the fixer-upper house we bought is falling apart.

Wait, Kessel aside how did the Leafs mortgage their future under Burke?

I see little patience for a true rebuild though, not pointing at you when I say that either, just in general. There are definitely people on this site that have promoted it and could live with some awful hockey to that end but I don't see the average Leafs fan thinking like that, fwiw.

Just that one deal really, but it was doozy.  Just wait until Seguin, Hamilton and Knight are lighting us up in a few years.

It really is a shame, Burke basically flushed his tenure down the toilet before it really started.  Yeah he might have saved it if some (any?) of his UFA signings had worked out, but people crunched the numbers and UFAs almost always underperform.

Remember he was the one saying that the rebuild wasn't necessary, that he was too old for it, that it didn't take that long in Anaheim, etc.  Who did you think he was defending himself against?  People who argue that his fast track is another (or rather the same) path to failure, the failure that we are seeing right now.

 

[Fanatic]

If you want to be taken seriously, it's probably best not to be a bold-faced liar.

I always that it was bald faced liar. But I looked it up and it does seem that bold and bald are now interchangeable.

 

[Redleaf]

Right now the anger is because we've mortgaged the future and the fixer-upper house we bought is falling apart.

Wait, Kessel aside how did the Leafs mortgage their future under Burke?

I see little patience for a true rebuild though, not pointing at you when I say that either, just in general. There are definitely people on this site that have promoted it and could live with some awful hockey to that end but I don't see the average Leafs fan thinking like that, fwiw.

I have to disagree with the "little patience for a true rebuild".  When Burke was first hired I think the general consensus of fans was that Burke would be a true leader, know what it takes to build a winner and the fanbase would be willing to live through the years of pain.  Burke came right in and started to sell the "quicker ways to a rebuild" and it hasn't panned out 4 years later.  Had he come in and said "we're going to build through the draft" and started to acquire top 5 picks the last few seasons, I think the fans would be a lot more optimistic at this point in time, especially if we had a great center prospect.

I'm wondering though if the "quicker ways to a rebuild" wasn't a mandate sent down from the board at MLSE? If it was, than what recourse did he really have?

 

[Kin]

And if you want to be taken seriously you shouldn't make implications that you later deny to the death. Ive been down this path with you. You beat around the bush and wait for someone to call you out on something.

The thing about people who can take the time to sit down and think about things is that they don't need to speak in absolutes. That's why I don't. I said one thing, specifically, about how it's pointless to try and pretend we know who could be better than Burke and that there are all sorts of people could do well in the job and it's unreasonable to expect anyone to name those names. There's no extraneous implications to that and I can't be held responsible for the ridiculous inferences you make from such a simple statement.

I'm bored with the games Nik. Tell us what you think the Leafs need to do in the off season to be successful and be done with it. What should they do??

I'm not a dancing monkey and I don't have a crystal ball. I don't know what opportunities lie in front of them and I don't know the right path ahead. I'm never going to approach my posting here as if I do no matter how much less whining you'll do as a result.

 

[Tigger]

Right now the anger is because we've mortgaged the future and the fixer-upper house we bought is falling apart.

Wait, Kessel aside how did the Leafs mortgage their future under Burke?

I see little patience for a true rebuild though, not pointing at you when I say that either, just in general. There are definitely people on this site that have promoted it and could live with some awful hockey to that end but I don't see the average Leafs fan thinking like that, fwiw.

I have to disagree with the "little patience for a true rebuild".  When Burke was first hired I think the general consensus of fans was that Burke would be a true leader, know what it takes to build a winner and the fanbase would be willing to live through the years of pain.  Burke came right in and started to sell the "quicker ways to a rebuild" and it hasn't panned out 4 years later.  Had he come in and said "we're going to build through the draft" and started to acquire top 5 picks the last few seasons, I think the fans would be a lot more optimistic at this point in time, especially if we had a great center prospect.

Ok but what's happening now? Leafs fans are revolting because of a promise, management style or because of team performance?

I didn't talk about Burke there for a reason, it was a comment about my opinion of the patience of the fan base.

 

[Zee]

Right now the anger is because we've mortgaged the future and the fixer-upper house we bought is falling apart.

Wait, Kessel aside how did the Leafs mortgage their future under Burke?

I see little patience for a true rebuild though, not pointing at you when I say that either, just in general. There are definitely people on this site that have promoted it and could live with some awful hockey to that end but I don't see the average Leafs fan thinking like that, fwiw.

Just that one deal really, but it was doozy.  Just wait until Seguin, Hamilton and Knight are lighting us up in a few years.

It is really 20/20 hindsight now, but the "fast rebuild" doesn't seem to be working, it's not really that fast is it?  Imagine if we hadn't made the Kessel deal and held onto the picks, and happened to take the same players, Seguin, Hamilton and Knight.  Add those prospects to the Kadri we already have.  Then perhaps when Boston goes looking to trade for Kaberle we still manage to get Colborne from them, or hell better yet he manages to trade Kaberle and something and gets Kessel in return.  The team would look a lot better now in my opinion.

 

[pnjunction]

I'm wondering though if the "quicker ways to a rebuild" wasn't a mandate sent down from the board at MLSE? If it was, than what recourse did he really have?

Then people who blame MLSE for everything would actually be right.

I thought the whole idea when he came in was that big shot Burke would be given autonomy though.

Maybe they sat down and mutually agreed on the fast track, so in a way it was Burke's decision even though it was what MLSE wanted. If so, shame on both of them is all.

 

[Kin]

I always that it was bald faced liar. But I looked it up and it does seem that bold and bald are now interchangeable.

They have slightly different meanings. Bold-faced means bold of manner. Bald-faced means transparent. Bold-faced predates Bald-faced by 350 years or so.

 

[Zee]

Right now the anger is because we've mortgaged the future and the fixer-upper house we bought is falling apart.

Wait, Kessel aside how did the Leafs mortgage their future under Burke?

I see little patience for a true rebuild though, not pointing at you when I say that either, just in general. There are definitely people on this site that have promoted it and could live with some awful hockey to that end but I don't see the average Leafs fan thinking like that, fwiw.

Just that one deal really, but it was doozy.  Just wait until Seguin, Hamilton and Knight are lighting us up in a few years.

It is really 20/20 hindsight now, but the "fast rebuild" doesn't seem to be working, it's not really that fast is it?  Imagine if we hadn't made the Kessel deal and held onto the picks, and happened to take the same players, Seguin, Hamilton and Knight.  Add those prospects to the Kadri we already have.  Then perhaps when Boston goes looking to trade for Kaberle we still manage to get Colborne from them, or hell better yet he manages to trade Kaberle and something and gets Kessel in return.  The team would look a lot better now in my opinion.

Ok but what's happening now? Leafs fans are revolting because of a promise, management style or because of team performance?

Leafs fans are revolting because of lack of direction with this team right now.  What's the plan?  Burke's words over the last few seasons have been constantly changing.  From "build from the net out", to "top 6, bottom 6", do you see ANY of that on the current Leafs roster?  He then changed his stance this year saying the NHL game "has changed" since the days of "top 6,  bottom 6" and the Leafs are changing with it and are now a "speed team".  It seems like he's making it up as he goes.

 

[Redleaf]

I'm not a dancing monkey and I don't have a crystal ball. I don't know what opportunities lie in front of them and I don't know the right path ahead. I'm never going to approach my posting here as if I do no matter how much less whining you'll do as a result.

Man. I've never come across anyone quite like you. How is asking your opinion on what the Leafs should do in the off season to become successful translate into you becoming a dancing monkey? LOL. Whatever. I can't respond to that. I really can't. LOL

 

[Fanatic]

I fully expect to hear some nasty chants tonight if the Leafs start losing - and that is to be expected since they are facing some Ontario boys coming to play at home.

 

[pnjunction]

It is really 20/20 hindsight now, but the "fast rebuild" doesn't seem to be working, it's not really that fast is it?  Imagine if we hadn't made the Kessel deal and held onto the picks, and happened to take the same players, Seguin, Hamilton and Knight.  Add those prospects to the Kadri we already have.  Then perhaps when Boston goes looking to trade for Kaberle we still manage to get Colborne from them, or hell better yet he manages to trade Kaberle and something and gets Kessel in return.  The team would look a lot better now in my opinion.

Only Burke could produce enough toxic gas at this point to sell his initial rebuild attempt as anything but a failure.

I would be ecstatic if we had all those guys under our belt.  They're all locked up for 5+ years, that's a real core you can build around.  I think we'd be much more accepting of the tank this year if we had all that going for us moving forward.

 

[Jalili]

Right now the anger is because we've mortgaged the future and the fixer-upper house we bought is falling apart.

Wait, Kessel aside how did the Leafs mortgage their future under Burke?

I see little patience for a true rebuild though, not pointing at you when I say that either, just in general. There are definitely people on this site that have promoted it and could live with some awful hockey to that end but I don't see the average Leafs fan thinking like that, fwiw.

I have to disagree with the "little patience for a true rebuild".  When Burke was first hired I think the general consensus of fans was that Burke would be a true leader, know what it takes to build a winner and the fanbase would be willing to live through the years of pain.  Burke came right in and started to sell the "quicker ways to a rebuild" and it hasn't panned out 4 years later.  Had he come in and said "we're going to build through the draft" and started to acquire top 5 picks the last few seasons, I think the fans would be a lot more optimistic at this point in time, especially if we had a great center prospect.

I'm wondering though if the "quicker ways to a rebuild" wasn't a mandate sent down from the board at MLSE? If it was, than what recourse did he really have?

It most likely was.

"Stripping down to the chassis and rebuilding it is certainly not what ownership has asked me to do. We're not rebuilding here, we're retooling." - Burke

I'm pretty sure it also came out after Ferguson was fired that he had supposedly proposed a rebuild plan to them after the lockout ended.

 

[Redleaf]

I fully expect to hear some nasty chants tonight if the Leafs start losing - and that is to be expected since they are facing some Ontario boys coming to play at home.

Yeah. I just see them winning tonight though. The games really don't mean anything now, and you know......

 

[Tigger]

Right now the anger is because we've mortgaged the future and the fixer-upper house we bought is falling apart.

Wait, Kessel aside how did the Leafs mortgage their future under Burke?

I see little patience for a true rebuild though, not pointing at you when I say that either, just in general. There are definitely people on this site that have promoted it and could live with some awful hockey to that end but I don't see the average Leafs fan thinking like that, fwiw.

Just that one deal really, but it was doozy.  Just wait until Seguin, Hamilton and Knight are lighting us up in a few years.

It really is a shame, Burke basically flushed his tenure down the toilet before it really started.  Yeah he might have saved it if some (any?) of his UFA signings had worked out, but people crunched the numbers and UFAs almost always underperform.

Remember he was the one saying that the rebuild wasn't necessary, that he was too old for it, that it didn't take that long in Anaheim, etc.  Who did you think he was defending himself against?  People who argue that his fast track is another (or rather the same) path to failure, the failure that we are seeing right now.

He could also have been playing to his base but I'd be projecting some there.

He did change course pretty fair last year when it became clear he had to embrace a rebuild but again, that post wasn't really about Burke.

I can forgive him some for a deal I was opposed to at the time, Kessel is a pretty darn nice asset, it's balanced out ok to me, fwiw.

I mean aside from Kessel it's mostly been a rebuild under Burke. I'm far from convinced the fan base would look at Seguin a lot differently from Phil, I think they would have generally had the same complaints about team success.

 

[Kin]

Man. I've never come across anyone quite like you. How is asking your opinion on what the Leafs should do in the off season to become successful translate into you becoming a dancing monkey?

I don't offer opinions on demand because you're incapable of responding to what I am actually saying. There are other threads for "What should the Leafs do this summer". This is just about Brian Burke. I put forth a really simple post on the subject. Sorry it tripped you up to the extent it did.

 

[Redleaf]

Right now the anger is because we've mortgaged the future and the fixer-upper house we bought is falling apart.

Wait, Kessel aside how did the Leafs mortgage their future under Burke?

I see little patience for a true rebuild though, not pointing at you when I say that either, just in general. There are definitely people on this site that have promoted it and could live with some awful hockey to that end but I don't see the average Leafs fan thinking like that, fwiw.

I have to disagree with the "little patience for a true rebuild".  When Burke was first hired I think the general consensus of fans was that Burke would be a true leader, know what it takes to build a winner and the fanbase would be willing to live through the years of pain.  Burke came right in and started to sell the "quicker ways to a rebuild" and it hasn't panned out 4 years later.  Had he come in and said "we're going to build through the draft" and started to acquire top 5 picks the last few seasons, I think the fans would be a lot more optimistic at this point in time, especially if we had a great center prospect.

I'm wondering though if the "quicker ways to a rebuild" wasn't a mandate sent down from the board at MLSE? If it was, than what recourse did he really have?

It most likely was.

"Stripping down to the chassis and rebuilding it is certainly not what ownership has asked me to do. We're not rebuilding here, we're retooling." - Burke

I'm pretty sure it also came out after Ferguson was fired that he had supposedly proposed a rebuild plan to them after the lockout ended.

Nice find. So, with everyone getting on Burke's case, shouldn't the anger be directed at MLSE right now?

 

[Redleaf]

Man. I've never come across anyone quite like you. How is asking your opinion on what the Leafs should do in the off season to become successful translate into you becoming a dancing monkey?

I don't offer opinions on demand because you're incapable of responding to what I am actually saying. There are other threads for "What should the Leafs do this summer". This is just about Brian Burke. I put forth a really simple post on the subject. Sorry it tripped you up to the extent it did.

No worries. You always trip me up.

 

[Kin]

Wait, Kessel aside how did the Leafs mortgage their future under Burke?

Obviously people's definitions are going to differ on the subject matter but it's not like the Kessel trade is the only move Burke made that would run contrary to a traditional rebuild.