The Brian Burke Thread

[rdowdall]

See, wasn't it easier to just agree with me  ;D

I feel...I don't know...I guess kind of dirty though.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

See, wasn't it easier to just agree with me  ;D

I feel...I don't know...I guess kind of dirty though.

It doesn't wash off either.

 

[Bender]

See, wasn't it easier to just agree with me  ;D

I feel...I don't know...I guess kind of dirty though.

It doesn't wash off either.

"Nothing g gets chocolate out. See?"

 

[OldTimeHockey]

 

[dappleganger]

Hey I know, let's have this debate in 2 months..then 2 months after that...then 2 months after that...

This has been spun into the ground. Some think Kessel is better than he is. Some think Kessel is worse than he is...I think it will be better when you all come to realize he's exactly what I think he is as I'm generally correct in assessing talent

So he's a point-per-game player?

 

[Kin]

Hey I know, let's have this debate in 2 months..then 2 months after that...then 2 months after that...

This has been spun into the ground. Some think Kessel is better than he is. Some think Kessel is worse than he is...I think it will be better when you all come to realize he's exactly what I think he is as I'm generally correct in assessing talent

So he's a point-per-game player?

In sort of the same sense that Andrew Raycroft is a 37 win goalie.

 

[Bullfrog]

In sort of the same sense that Andrew Raycroft is a 37 win goalie.

ah, no.

 

[Kin]

In sort of the same sense that Andrew Raycroft is a 37 win goalie.

ah, no.

Um, yes?

 

[OldTimeHockey]

er, maybe?

 

[rdowdall]

Hey I know, let's have this debate in 2 months..then 2 months after that...then 2 months after that...

This has been spun into the ground. Some think Kessel is better than he is. Some think Kessel is worse than he is...I think it will be better when you all come to realize he's exactly what I think he is as I'm generally correct in assessing talent

So he's a point-per-game player?

In sort of the same sense that Andrew Raycroft is a 37 win goalie.

The Leafs should never trade with Boston again.

 

[hockeyfan1]

The Leafs should never trade with Boston again.

Ah, probably...not! 

 

[Jalili]

A four year breakdown.......

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/12/01/pressure-will-be-on-leafs-gm-burke

I disagree with this statement:

"That said, he has clearly been a winner in his trades, helping to balance off the shortcomings in free agency."

The Beauchemin trade for Lupul and Gardiner was pure robbery. Can anyone think of a bigger heist over the past few years in the NHL? Anaheim was fleeced in that deal, and that, at least to me, makes up the for slim pickings that he's picked up in free agency.

What was a bigger fleece? The Beauchemin trade or the Kessel trade?

My mother always told me to never answer a question with a question, but here I go anyway:

What was a bigger fleece, the Kessel deal or the Kaberle deal?

(We can all play this game if we want)

I don't know if I'd call the Kaberle deal a fleecing.

The Leafs got good value, sure... but out of the package they got - Colborne + picks #30+54 - that seems like a pretty ordinary return.

 

[Bullfrog]

In sort of the same sense that Andrew Raycroft is a 37 win goalie.

ah, no.

Um, yes?

I'll give it to you since you said "sort of," but otherwise that's just a deliberate misuse or misleading use of facts.

Yes, Raycroft only achieved that fact once, but he only had an 89.4 save percentage and anyone who objectively watched his performance that year would say he was mediocre, decent at best.

Though Kessel has only achieved the ppg rate once in his career, I think it's safe to assume he's a bonafide offensive star in this league. You can count on 30 goals from him and it really appears that the ppg rate (or close to it) will be more of the trend than the exception. Additionally, his overall game is improving.

So while  saying he's a ppg player like Raycroft is a 37 game winner is historically correct, it's clearly not an apt comparison. Why not just say, "he's only been a ppg player once." No comparison needed.

 

[dappleganger]

In sort of the same sense that Andrew Raycroft is a 37 win goalie.

ah, no.

Um, yes?

I'll give it to you since you said "sort of," but otherwise that's just a deliberate misuse or misleading use of facts.

Yes, Raycroft only achieved that fact once, but he only had an 89.4 save percentage and anyone who objectively watched his performance that year would say he was mediocre, decent at best.

Though Kessel has only achieved the ppg rate once in his career, I think it's safe to assume he's a bonafide offensive star in this league. You can count on 30 goals from him and it really appears that the ppg rate (or close to it) will be more of the trend than the exception. Additionally, his overall game is improving.

So while  saying he's a ppg player like Raycroft is a 37 game winner is historically correct, it's clearly not an apt comparison. Why not just say, "he's only been a ppg player once." No comparison needed.

Also, having a point per game season is a pretty good accomplishment for an offensive player. Where as a 37 win season for a goalie is... heck even Raycroft had a 37 win season.  ;D

 

[Champ Kind]

A four year breakdown.......

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/12/01/pressure-will-be-on-leafs-gm-burke

I disagree with this statement:

"That said, he has clearly been a winner in his trades, helping to balance off the shortcomings in free agency."

The Beauchemin trade for Lupul and Gardiner was pure robbery. Can anyone think of a bigger heist over the past few years in the NHL? Anaheim was fleeced in that deal, and that, at least to me, makes up the for slim pickings that he's picked up in free agency.

What was a bigger fleece? The Beauchemin trade or the Kessel trade?

My mother always told me to never answer a question with a question, but here I go anyway:

What was a bigger fleece, the Kessel deal or the Kaberle deal?

(We can all play this game if we want)

I don't know if I'd call the Kaberle deal a fleecing.

The Leafs got good value, sure... but out of the package they got - Colborne + picks #30+54 - that seems like a pretty ordinary return.

Did you see what Kaberle did in the B's playoff run?  What he's done since then?  That Burke got that package for him is incredible.

 

[Jalili]

A four year breakdown.......

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/12/01/pressure-will-be-on-leafs-gm-burke

I disagree with this statement:

"That said, he has clearly been a winner in his trades, helping to balance off the shortcomings in free agency."

The Beauchemin trade for Lupul and Gardiner was pure robbery. Can anyone think of a bigger heist over the past few years in the NHL? Anaheim was fleeced in that deal, and that, at least to me, makes up the for slim pickings that he's picked up in free agency.

What was a bigger fleece? The Beauchemin trade or the Kessel trade?

My mother always told me to never answer a question with a question, but here I go anyway:

What was a bigger fleece, the Kessel deal or the Kaberle deal?

(We can all play this game if we want)

I don't know if I'd call the Kaberle deal a fleecing.

The Leafs got good value, sure... but out of the package they got - Colborne + picks #30+54 - that seems like a pretty ordinary return.

Did you see what Kaberle did in the B's playoff run?  What he's done since then?  That Burke got that package for him is incredible.

The Leafs did well in the sense that they flipped a player perceived to be a quality puck-moving defenseman at the time, and cashed in just before Kab's career went into full decline.

Kaberle was certainly a disappointment; on the other hand, Colborne seems to be approaching that status as well. The picks are nice, but it just seems like too ordinary of a return to call it a fleecing.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Kaberle was certainly a disappointment; on the other hand, Colborne seems to be approaching that status as well. The picks are nice, but it just seems like too ordinary of a return to call it a fleecing.

Is he really approaching that status? Already? Is this not just an overreaction by a Leaf fan population that has yet to see any of their strong prospects turn out as good as they were suppose to?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Kaberle was certainly a disappointment; on the other hand, Colborne seems to be approaching that status as well. The picks are nice, but it just seems like too ordinary of a return to call it a fleecing.

Is he really approaching that status? Already? Is this not just an overreaction by a Leaf fan population that has yet to see any of their strong prospects turn out as good as they were suppose to?

I guess it depends on how loosely you view the word approaching, but yeah I think you can definitely make that case. At the time of the trade Burke himself said that Colborne wouldn't be a guy that would take 3 years to make the NHL. You could say that this was just another time where he should have probably kept his mouth shut but if that was the expectation then he might not meet it. He's currently in year 2 as a Leaf and based on his play in the AHL so far this season I'd say he's a longshot to make the NHL this year if/when it comes back.

Obviously, his injury set him back quite a bit last season offensively, but I'm not sure how much longer he can use that excuse. He only has 1 goal and 5 assists in 18 games this season and is on a 8-game pointless streak.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Well, last year he had 5 points in 10 games with the big boys and had a +2. I'd say that's a minor success pointing to his ability to be able to compete with the Leafs.

He's also only 22 years old. If we're going to view him as a failure, I suppose we have to look at Kadri as a failure as well.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

As for what Burke said, are we not over that yet? He makes idiotic statements that he can't back up repeatedly. Why do we act surprised when he makes another prediction he has no control over?