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The Official 2012 MLB Thread

Just to follow that thought up, compared to Sabathia Hamels has a better WHIP, standard ERA, K/9, BB/9, H/9, K/BB and the exact same ERA+. Really the only edges Sabathia has is giving up fewer homeruns and throwing more innings. 
 
Nik? said:
Just to follow that thought up, compared to Sabathia Hamels has a better WHIP, standard ERA, K/9, BB/9, H/9, K/BB and the exact same ERA+. Really the only edges Sabathia has is giving up fewer homeruns and throwing more innings.
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Well, and the fact that Sabathia has won more games - alot more games.  That, and he's a Cy Young award winner.

I defer to your and others' more detailed knowledge of baseball stats, but I don't think a pitcher (or any player, for that matter, regardless of sport) can be reduced to mere statistics.  I think wins matter (see Dave Stewart and Jack Morris).  I also think Sabathia is a better pitcher than Hamels.  So is Matt Cain, for example, who is making less than Hamels.

I just think this contract for Cole Hamels is sort of outrageous, out of step with market realities, and overall seems like a desperate move by a desperate, rich team.
 
Champ Kind said:
So is Matt Cain, for example, who is making less than Hamels.
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Statistically, there's not a whole lot of difference between the two (in fact, Hamels has a slight edge), but, using your own guideline, Cain has never won more than 14 games in a season, has less career wins in more career starts and has a substantially lower winning percentage than Hamels (.510 for Cain, .594 for Hamels).
 
Champ Kind said:
Well, and the fact that Sabathia has won more games - alot more games.  That, and he's a Cy Young award winner.
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Ok but opinions aside that's just really not the way salary is going to work in Baseball post-Moneyball. If a guy has a 17-10 record but a 4.76 ERA he's not going to get paid a ton of money whereas guys with good numbers in the more important categories will get paid. Cliff Lee, for instance, signed his big contract after two years of going 14-13 and 12-9.

Champ Kind said:
I defer to your and others' more detailed knowledge of baseball stats, but I don't think a pitcher (or any player, for that matter, regardless of sport) can be reduced to mere statistics.  I think wins matter (see Dave Stewart and Jack Morris).  I also think Sabathia is a better pitcher than Hamels.  So is Matt Cain, for example, who is making less than Hamels.
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I'm not sure what you think Dave Stewart or Jack Morris prove so I can't speak to that but like I said your beef isn't with me here it's with baseball. Guys are going to get paid on the basis of their more relevant statistics and Hamels has better numbers than Sabathia in just about all of the important ones(except innings pitched which is a very important one).
 
Impressive sweep of the Brewers by the Phillies, by the same 7-6 score.

Game 1 - Down 4 early, they score 4 in the bottom of the 9th to win.
Game 2 - 6 in the bottom of the 8th inning to erase a 6-1 deficit.
Game 3 - They blow a 5-1 lead and trail 6-5 in the 10th before coming back to win.
 
bustaheims said:
Champ Kind said:
So is Matt Cain, for example, who is making less than Hamels.
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Statistically, there's not a whole lot of difference between the two (in fact, Hamels has a slight edge), but, using your own guideline, Cain has never won more than 14 games in a season, has less career wins in more career starts and has a substantially lower winning percentage than Hamels (.510 for Cain, .594 for Hamels).
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You got me there.

Subjectively, then, from my peripheral perspective Hamels doesn't seem like an elite talent.  Though for some reason Cain does.
 
Champ Kind said:
Subjectively, then, from my peripheral perspective Hamels doesn't seem like an elite talent.  Though for some reason Cain does.
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It's optic. Hamels is his team's #3 guy, whereas Cain has become his team's #1 (partly because of Lincecum's implosion).
 
Greinke for Segura, Pena and Hellweg. Hard to say deeper into the season now, but pretty much three of the Angels' top 10 prospects for Greinke.

Pretty good return I'd say.
 
#1PilarFan said:
Greinke for Segura, Pena and Hellweg. Hard to say deeper into the season now, but pretty much three of the Angels' top 10 prospects for Greinke.

Pretty good return I'd say.
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Very good return for a rental under the new CBA.
 
Sounds like Pence is heading to the Giants. Much more active trade deadline than usual, or at least, it feels that way. Maybe it's just the names that are moving.
 
bustaheims said:
Sounds like Pence is heading to the Giants. Much more active trade deadline than usual, or at least, it feels that way. Maybe it's just the names that are moving.
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This is official now. Schierholtz and two prospects.
 
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