The Unofficial Fire Ron Wilson/Ron Wilson is the Greatest Thread

[ontariojames]

Marc Crawford is a moron, I'd be extremely upset if we hired him.

This.  Between him and MacLean it amazes me how some people actually had coaching/managing jobs in the NHL.

 

[Corn Flake]

Cox: Eakins Should Be Next Coach

Ok, but the reasoning he uses is that the Leafs had Crawford and Quenneville in the system 20 years ago and they went on to win, so that's why they should hire Eakins.  :

Cox is using those 2 as an example. I remember when Crawford was coaching our AHL team and people pegged him as a coach of the future,
Eakins seems to be in the same boat. The thing that works in Eakins advantage is all the players on the Marlies that he's worked with already, they all speak glowingly of him and how he motivates them and challenges them each game. Even the departed Keith Aulie had nothing but great words about Eakins. He is used to working with young players, I say he deserves a shot.

Of course Burke will hire Carlyle though.

But that is Cox logic again.. I have no doubt Eakins is a really good coach and he's #2 on my list as well, but he would be more of a risk than Carlyle. The latter has NHL experience, success and a cup ring.  Eakins looks like he's a solid teaching coach and a good motivator for players hungry to get out of the AHL, but can that translate into being able to coach multi million dollar NHL guys?  Answer is we don't know.

I really like Eakins but how can you automatically pick him over a proven guy because of what he's done in the AHL?

 

[Zee]

I'm still not convinced this is entirely a coaching issue.  It's an easy out to blame the coaching staff.  There were many games when the team was "on" and Wilson looked like a Jack Adams shoe in. 

The team demonstrated at times that they knew what they were doing, were well prepared for the games.  When Reimer went down and Gus was playing lights out, the team won, and looked really good doing it.

The biggest thing that sunk this team this year was goal tending.  Most of the people on this board, the media and fans in general suspected the Leafs were going to be as good as Reimer was.  There were many rumblings in the summer questioning if going into 2011/2012 with Reimer and Gus with no veteran goalie was a good idea.

Yes everyone knew Giguere didn't have a good season last year.  But as CW pointed out goalies are the most fickle players and take the longest to develop.  Signing Giguere to a $1.25 mil contract wouldn't have been the end of the world, even if he didn't play that well.

Pinning this seasons hopes on Reimer was a HUGE mistake on Burke's part. I pin this years debacle squarely on Burke, not on coaching.

4 seasons, no playoffs with Wilson. Blame lack of talent and execution all you want, the coach pushes the buttons game in game out. How many season killing slumps can teams endure with Wilson?  It's always one thing or the other and Wilson has shown he can't get the team out of horrendous slumps time and again. Time for dodgeball practice again??

The more people that keep cutting Wilson slack after 4 seasons of utter failure makes me worried that Burke will cut him slack as well.  Wilson's time was done LAST YEAR.

 

[cw]

CW- I don't see how Eakins is relateable to JFJ. Ferguson was an executive/scout who promoted to the role of GM without any GM experience.

Eakins is a former player who is having success as a head coach. He is young, heavily praised by his players and employs a defensive approach in his system. I see far less risk in his hiring.

Also, just because JFJ failed miserably, it doesn't mean anyone without big league experience is destined to fail.

JFJ was a GM for the Blues AHL team. He was also an assistant NHL GM for the Blues. Relative to the two men, I'd say JFJ's resume for a NHL GM job was considerably stronger than Eakin's resume for the NHL coaching job. JFJ had longer and broader experiences in the NHL head office, being an agent, scouting, being an AHL GM, handing contracts, experience in NHL management, etc. He also had good formal education, playing experiences and came from a hockey family.

I like Eakins. He's down to earth and seems to try to be a very straight shooter. He also seems to make a daily effort to communicate to his players - via one on ones and as a group. And he tells them like it is. He also seems knowledgeable. We could do worse. But I think his resume, without having coached a single playoff game ever is kind of light.

As for the players speaking well of him, some of that is probably genuine - particularly for the guys getting the ice time. Some of it may be lip service so a given player continues to get the ice time. That's a little fuzzy for me to be sure.

 

[Corn Flake]

Not trying to defend Wilson here (I don't like tar and feathers) but I can confidently say if the Leafs had solid goaltending all season long with no major hiccups like we have seen the last 2.5 weeks and other parts of the year, they would be easily in the playoff hunt and might be still fighting for home ice.

Its not all goaltending's fault, but a really good goalie covers many sins of the players in front of him.  Ask Cujo.

Now was there a goalie out there who could have filled that role?  That I don't know. 

 

[maplesyrup]

Not trying to defend Wilson here (I don't like tar and feathers) but I can confidently say if the Leafs had solid goaltending all season long with no major hiccups like we have seen the last 2.5 weeks and other parts of the year, they would be easily in the playoff hunt and might be still fighting for home ice.

Its not all goaltending's fault, but a really good goalie covers many sins of the players in front of him.  Ask Cujo.

Now was there a goalie out there who could have filled that role?  That I don't know.

Elliott!

 

[Corn Flake]

Elliot!

Without the system put in place by Hitch and the veteran in front of him, I doubt that happens.

 

[maplesyrup]

Elliot!

Without the system put in place by Hitch and the veteran in front of him, I doubt that happens.

Not that I disagree much or do I think anyone would have expected Elliott to be the real deal but wasn't Elliott tearing it up before Hitch came on the scene too?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Elliot!

Without the system put in place by Hitch and the veteran in front of him, I doubt that happens.

Maybe not, but that's ignoring the fact that Elliott was playing amazing even before Hitchcock was hired. Perhaps his team does deserve some credit, but all indications are that Elliott spent the entire summer trying to redefine his game and it's paying off now.

 

[bustaheims]

Not that I disagree much or do I think anyone would have expected Elliott to be the real deal but wasn't Elliott tearing it up before Hitch came on the scene too?

Well, he had only started 6 games at that point.

 

[Andy007]

CW- I don't see how Eakins is relateable to JFJ. Ferguson was an executive/scout who promoted to the role of GM without any GM experience.

Eakins is a former player who is having success as a head coach. He is young, heavily praised by his players and employs a defensive approach in his system. I see far less risk in his hiring.

Also, just because JFJ failed miserably, it doesn't mean anyone without big league experience is destined to fail.

JFJ was a GM for the Blues AHL team. He was also an assistant NHL GM for the Blues. Relative to the two men, I'd say JFJ's resume for a NHL GM job was considerably stronger than Eakin's resume for the NHL coaching job. JFJ had longer and broader experiences in the NHL head office, being an agent, scouting, being an AHL GM, handing contracts, experience in NHL management, etc. He also had good formal education, playing experiences and came from a hockey family.

I like Eakins. He's down to earth and seems to try to be a very straight shooter. He also seems to make a daily effort to communicate to his players - via one on ones and as a group. And he tells them like it is. He also seems knowledgeable. We could do worse. But I think his resume, without having coached a single playoff game ever is kind of light.

As for the players speaking well of him, some of that is probably genuine - particularly for the guys getting the ice time. Some of it may be lip service so a given player continues to get the ice time. That's a little fuzzy for me to be sure.

Oh, my mistake, I didn't know JFJ had prior GM experience (I think the 1st, 2nd, 4th for Toskala deal blinded me of that fact).

I think I'd still like to see a younger coach with a good system take over this team. Granted that sounds a little like what Maurice was billed to be, complete with the turnaround of the Marlies and all, but I think I'd rather see a player's coach as opposed to another barker/shouter.

 

[Corn Flake]

Elliot!

Without the system put in place by Hitch and the veteran in front of him, I doubt that happens.

Maybe not, but that's ignoring the fact that Elliott was playing amazing even before Hitchcock was hired. Perhaps his team does deserve some credit, but all indications are that Elliott spent the entire summer trying to redefine his game and it's paying off now.

Let me rephrase... I don't know if he could have done it in the Toronto environment, and I wonder how much Halak has benefited him too... kind of that insurance policy thing again that the Leafs don't have.  The system there now sure isn't hurting.

 

[cw]

CW- I don't see how Eakins is relateable to JFJ. Ferguson was an executive/scout who promoted to the role of GM without any GM experience.

Eakins is a former player who is having success as a head coach. He is young, heavily praised by his players and employs a defensive approach in his system. I see far less risk in his hiring.

Also, just because JFJ failed miserably, it doesn't mean anyone without big league experience is destined to fail.

JFJ was a GM for the Blues AHL team. He was also an assistant NHL GM for the Blues. Relative to the two men, I'd say JFJ's resume for a NHL GM job was considerably stronger than Eakin's resume for the NHL coaching job. JFJ had longer and broader experiences in the NHL head office, being an agent, scouting, being an AHL GM, handing contracts, experience in NHL management, etc. He also had good formal education, playing experiences and came from a hockey family.

I like Eakins. He's down to earth and seems to try to be a very straight shooter. He also seems to make a daily effort to communicate to his players - via one on ones and as a group. And he tells them like it is. He also seems knowledgeable. We could do worse. But I think his resume, without having coached a single playoff game ever is kind of light.

As for the players speaking well of him, some of that is probably genuine - particularly for the guys getting the ice time. Some of it may be lip service so a given player continues to get the ice time. That's a little fuzzy for me to be sure.

Oh, my mistake, I didn't know JFJ had prior GM experience (I think the 1st, 2nd, 4th for Toskala deal blinded me of that fact).

I think I'd still like to see a younger coach with a good system take over this team. Granted that sounds a little like what Maurice was billed to be, complete with the turnaround of the Marlies and all, but I think I'd rather see a player's coach as opposed to another barker/shouter.

I like players coaches better as well. I think they tend to get more out of the talent they're given to work with because it's a sport where emotions can make them more than the sum of their parts.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Elliot!

Without the system put in place by Hitch and the veteran in front of him, I doubt that happens.

Maybe not, but that's ignoring the fact that Elliott was playing amazing even before Hitchcock was hired. Perhaps his team does deserve some credit, but all indications are that Elliott spent the entire summer trying to redefine his game and it's paying off now.

Let me rephrase... I don't know if he could have done it in the Toronto environment, and I wonder how much Halak has benefited him too... kind of that insurance policy thing again that the Leafs don't have.  The system there now sure isn't hurting.

Fair enough. Toronto's run and gun style certainly wouldn't do any goalies a favour.

 

[ZBBM]

I have plumped for going with Eakins, but something closer to the co-coach thing might work too.  Maybe a vet as head coach with responsibilities to deal with media, and Eakins as assistant in full charge of the defense?

Whatever happens, they absolutely have to get a coach who can install a workable NHL defensive scheme and get the players to play it.  Wilson SHOULD have been able to do that, but has failed miserably. 

Of course there's no guarantee.  Remember, Maurice was brought in with a rep as a great defensive coach, just the thing to shore up the team after the PQ years of relying totally on the goalie.

 

[Bender]

I have plumped for going with Eakins, but something closer to the co-coach thing might work too.  Maybe a vet as head coach with responsibilities to deal with media, and Eakins as assistant in full charge of the defense?

Whatever happens, they absolutely have to get a coach who can install a workable NHL defensive scheme and get the players to play it.  Wilson SHOULD have been able to do that, but has failed miserably. 

Of course there's no guarantee.  Remember, Maurice was brought in with a rep as a great defensive coach, just the thing to shore up the team after the PQ years of relying totally on the goalie.

Sometimes I just kind of feel like you can have the best intent have all the right intentions down, a lot of good puzzle pieces, but only right before it blows in your face you realize that some of the pieces are for a similar 500 piece jigsaw puzzle, just the picture is different on the front.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

See cw's post.  There's value in those trades, it's just really poor value.  Do you seriously want Burke to make "Perreault for a 2nd rounder" kinds of deadline trades like JFJ made?

Yes. I do. I want Brian Burke to make the worst possible example of those kinds of trades. That way, the team will get worse and I'll be immeasurably happy. Because that's what I'm saying.

If think you've distorted and unfairly extrapolated anything that Burke said on the issue far more than I've distorted or unfairly extrapolated anything that you did.

 

[Corn Flake]

I have plumped for going with Eakins, but something closer to the co-coach thing might work too.  Maybe a vet as head coach with responsibilities to deal with media, and Eakins as assistant in full charge of the defense?

Whatever happens, they absolutely have to get a coach who can install a workable NHL defensive scheme and get the players to play it.  Wilson SHOULD have been able to do that, but has failed miserably. 

Of course there's no guarantee.  Remember, Maurice was brought in with a rep as a great defensive coach, just the thing to shore up the team after the PQ years of relying totally on the goalie.

Sometimes I just kind of feel like you can have the best intent have all the right intentions down, a lot of good puzzle pieces, but only right before it blows in your face you realize that some of the pieces are for a similar 500 piece jigsaw puzzle, just the picture is different on the front.

Sometimes it never makes sense.  JFJ brought in Kubina and Gill one off season to mesh with Kaberle and McCabe and the defense was terrible, yet Quinn made it work years before with a run and gun system and had Cross and Aki Berg in his top six. 

the Coyotes don't make sense. The Panthers don't make sense. The Sabres falling apart doesn't make sense. etc.

 

[Kin]

If think you've distorted and unfairly extrapolated anything that Burke said on the issue far more than I've distorted or unfairly extrapolated anything that you did.

By quoting him?

 

[Tigger]

Marc Crawford is a moron, I'd be extremely upset if we hired him.

Me too, I don't want him anywhere near the Leafs.