Top 6 Winger

[L K]

Hopefully folks understand my point in the Lehtonen thread now. Success in the KHL translating over is a huge gamble.

The problem is that this was just a disastrous year for him to transition.  He was in "game shape" from playing in the KHL to start the year but he never got a chance to adjust to the North American rink because we had next to no training camp.  The Leafs have had a heavy schedule with 27 games and 31 off days between them so practice time is limited so he hasn't really had a great opportunity to get practice work in to develop those skills.

He very well could end up being a decent all around NHL player with an offensive focus but this season really just killed that, especially with Bogosian being decent instead of a guy who I think most expected to be a guy playing half the season and being in and out of the lineup a lot.

 

[Kin]

I appreciate wanting the team to be in as strong shape as possible for the playoffs but just realistically there's only so many ways you're going to be able to insure yourself from injury. If a top 4 defenseman goes down, it'll hurt anyone.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

The problem is that this was just a disastrous year for him to transition.  He was in "game shape" from playing in the KHL to start the year but he never got a chance to adjust to the North American rink because we had next to no training camp.  The Leafs have had a heavy schedule with 27 games and 31 off days between them so practice time is limited so he hasn't really had a great opportunity to get practice work in to develop those skills.

He very well could end up being a decent all around NHL player with an offensive focus but this season really just killed that, especially with Bogosian being decent instead of a guy who I think most expected to be a guy playing half the season and being in and out of the lineup a lot.

I'm a little surprised that they haven't tried to get him and Barabanov into some AHL games. I think I've said before about how there's the threat of them leaving for Europe if that happens but 1) if it's made clear it's just a temporary move it might not ruffle their feathers, and 2) the KHL season (and I'm assuming other European leagues) are in playoffs now so it's not like they're able to join one of those teams anymore.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

His defensive play.  He's a guy could slot in to fill in for say Dermott or heck even Rielly (not by pure minutes but for the PP role) but he isn't going to be the solution if we lose Brodie or Muzzin.

Yeah. He needs to be heavily sheltered. Can't play PK effectively, shouldn't be out against the other team's top forwards, etc. At this point, he's basically a PP specialist, which is unfortunate, since many had high hopes for him.

I don't think hopes should be dashed on Lehtonen just yet. Tempered perhaps, but I wouldn't be giving up on him. He's played what? 9 games?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

His defensive play.  He's a guy could slot in to fill in for say Dermott or heck even Rielly (not by pure minutes but for the PP role) but he isn't going to be the solution if we lose Brodie or Muzzin.

Yeah. He needs to be heavily sheltered. Can't play PK effectively, shouldn't be out against the other team's top forwards, etc. At this point, he's basically a PP specialist, which is unfortunate, since many had high hopes for him.

I don't think hopes should be dashed on Lehtonen just yet. Tempered perhaps, but I wouldn't be giving up on him. He's played what? 9 games?

I don't think you're entirely wrong, but I'd be surprised if he played 9 more with the Leafs this season. At least if they stay healthy. Dermott's play seems to have ended that rotation they had going on.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't think hopes should be dashed on Lehtonen just yet. Tempered perhaps, but I wouldn't be giving up on him. He's played what? 9 games?

I wouldn't either, but I also don't think the team can rely on him in any meaningful way this season. As L K said earlier, this season was the worst possible for someone like him to make the transition. He needs a full training camp, proper practices, etc., to get comfortable with how the game differs on the smaller rink. In a full 82 game season, when every game isn't against a divisional opponent and doesn't have the same impact on your playoff chances, it would also have been easier to transition him into the lineup. The condensed schedule has made it difficult for a lot of European imports. I'd like to see the Leafs hang on to him for next season, but I don't know if that will be in the cards - I can easily see Lehtonen preferring to return to the KHL where he's had success and will likely be able to get a better contract.

 

[Highlander]

His defensive play.  He's a guy could slot in to fill in for say Dermott or heck even Rielly (not by pure minutes but for the PP role) but he isn't going to be the solution if we lose Brodie or Muzzin.

Yeah. He needs to be heavily sheltered. Can't play PK effectively, shouldn't be out against the other team's top forwards, etc. At this point, he's basically a PP specialist, which is unfortunate, since many had high hopes for him.

I don't think hopes should be dashed on Lehtonen just yet. Tempered perhaps, but I wouldn't be giving up on him. He's played what? 9 games?

I don't think you're entirely wrong, but I'd be surprised if he played 9 more with the Leafs this season. At least if they stay healthy. Dermott's play seems to have ended that rotation they had going on.

Could the Leafs trade Lehtonen? If so would it hurt there chances of landing other Russian hopefuls?  It seems they have one of the best contacts for moving players from the KHL to the NHL.  I personally think Lehtonen has a lot of poise and a very good upside, I'd like to see him play more. 
Would have been much better for him and the "Barber" to have had a full camp, no doubt.

 

[ZBBM]

His defensive play.  He's a guy could slot in to fill in for say Dermott or heck even Rielly (not by pure minutes but for the PP role) but he isn't going to be the solution if we lose Brodie or Muzzin.

Yeah. He needs to be heavily sheltered. Can't play PK effectively, shouldn't be out against the other team's top forwards, etc. At this point, he's basically a PP specialist, which is unfortunate, since many had high hopes for him.

I don't think hopes should be dashed on Lehtonen just yet. Tempered perhaps, but I wouldn't be giving up on him. He's played what? 9 games?

I don't think you're entirely wrong, but I'd be surprised if he played 9 more with the Leafs this season. At least if they stay healthy. Dermott's play seems to have ended that rotation they had going on.

Lehtonen should at least be given a decent chance before giving up on him.  If he better catches on to the NA style he'd be a great addition to the PP.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Half a season to go so there's still time that Lehtonen and Barabanov can contribute. Injuries are probably going to happen so we'll see.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Could the Leafs trade Lehtonen? If so would it hurt there chances of landing other Russian hopefuls?

Leaving aside questions like "is Lehtonen a NHLer" (my answer: maybe) and "should he get more playing time here" (my answer: maybe), I think you could potentially make the argument that trading Lehtonen could actually improve their attractiveness to future European players.

Lehtonen came over here for a shot at a NHL career. Things didn't start off great, and he hasn't really been able to establish himself as a NHLer halfway through the season like both sides hoped he would. A lot of teams in Toronto's position might just say "thanks but we're done" and bury him in the AHL for the rest of the year and let his contract expire. If the Leafs went to him and said "Listen, you're going to be our 7D for the rest of the year and we still have Sandin, Liljegren, and maybe another potential veteran we pick up as depth. Realistically speaking, we aren't going to give you the opportunity that you're looking for in the 2nd half of the season. Instead of getting buried here, how would you feel about getting traded to a team that could actually use a defenceman like you for the rest of the season", I think he would actually be very appreciative of that and future UFAs would feel safe knowing that the Leafs will try to do right by them even if things don't work out.

And to connect this to the actual topic of this thread, I think Nashville would make for a perfect opportunity for him. They're currently missing both Ryan Ellis and Roman Josi, so they seem like they're dying for a puck-moving, powerplay QB-type defenceman. Maybe he gets thrown into a Mikael Granlund trade.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

His defensive play.  He's a guy could slot in to fill in for say Dermott or heck even Rielly (not by pure minutes but for the PP role) but he isn't going to be the solution if we lose Brodie or Muzzin.

Yeah. He needs to be heavily sheltered. Can't play PK effectively, shouldn't be out against the other team's top forwards, etc. At this point, he's basically a PP specialist, which is unfortunate, since many had high hopes for him.

I don't think hopes should be dashed on Lehtonen just yet. Tempered perhaps, but I wouldn't be giving up on him. He's played what? 9 games?

I don't think you're entirely wrong, but I'd be surprised if he played 9 more with the Leafs this season. At least if they stay healthy. Dermott's play seems to have ended that rotation they had going on.

I think you're right if everything stays sort of the same. But if Holl continues to struggle, or anyone gets hurt, he'll get more looks.

 

[ZBBM]

Yes, let's see what happens with Holl (and Dermott) before we jettison Lehtonen.  We're only halfway through.

 

[herman]

What does the list of possibility look like these days? Opening up to all positions

WOW?: Hall
2nd Tier Blockbustery: Arvidsson, Ekholm
Very Cool: Iafallo, Garland
Cool: Granlund, Rakell
K: Haula, Gagner

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/1374433977512067072
Brace for badness

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I'm starting to get into a Hall-or-bust territory.

Scattered thoughts: I don't think Forsberg or Arvidsson are really within the realm of possibility. I question whether Rakell is really that good and the cost to acquire him seems very high because of the extra year of his contract, which might not even really be a positive considering the upcoming expansion draft. Conor Garland seems like a solid player, but is he really what this group needs? Iafallo/Granlund/Haula seem like players that would be good fits but are they that much of an upgrade over Kerfoot playing with Tavares/Nylander (assuming Galchenyuk strikes out) that we should pay assets to get them... especially considering they'll need to sit for 2 weeks and then basically jump onto the team right as playoffs start?

The one non-Hall guy I would have loved to get was Kyle Palmieri... but reports are he won't waive his NTC to come to Canada because of the quarantine stuff, which is fair.

So I'm basically really hoping that between Hall's salary, his not-so-great stats this season, and his NTC, that the Leafs are basically Buffalo's only option to trade with and we get him at a reasonable cost.

 

[Bullfrog]

I'm also in Hall-or-bust. I really don't think the others are realistic (Forsberg, Rakell, etc.)

 

[Redleaf]

Any goaltenders out there worth trying to trade for?

 

[L K]

I'm starting to get into a Hall-or-bust territory.

Scattered thoughts: I don't think Forsberg or Arvidsson are really within the realm of possibility. I question whether Rakell is really that good and the cost to acquire him seems very high because of the extra year of his contract, which might not even really be a positive considering the upcoming expansion draft. Conor Garland seems like a solid player, but is he really what this group needs? Iafallo/Granlund/Haula seem like players that would be good fits but are they that much of an upgrade over Kerfoot playing with Tavares/Nylander (assuming Galchenyuk strikes out) that we should pay assets to get them... especially considering they'll need to sit for 2 weeks and then basically jump onto the team right as playoffs start?

The one non-Hall guy I would have loved to get was Kyle Palmieri... but reports are he won't waive his NTC to come to Canada because of the quarantine stuff, which is fair.

So I'm basically really hoping that between Hall's salary, his not-so-great stats this season, and his NTC, that the Leafs are basically Buffalo's only option to trade with and we get him at a reasonable cost.

What are we realistically thinking his trade value is?

Last year he went with 50% cap retention + Blake Speers (2015 3rd rounder with no AHL production)

For:  1st round pic + 3rd round pick + Kevin Bahl (2018 2nd round pick) + Nick Merkley (2015 1st round pick) + Nate Schnarr (2017 3rd round pick)

Admittedly his production is cut in half this year compared to last and he only has 2 goals but I'm not sure that he's going to be all that cheap still.

 

[bustaheims]

What are we realistically thinking his trade value is?

Last year he went with 50% cap retention + Blake Speers (2015 3rd rounder with no AHL production)

For:  1st round pic + 3rd round pick + Kevin Bahl (2018 2nd round pick) + Nick Merkley (2015 1st round pick) + Nate Schnarr (2017 3rd round pick)

Admittedly his production is cut in half this year compared to last and he only has 2 goals but I'm not sure that he's going to be all that cheap still.

He's a year older, a year further removed from his Hart trophy season, his production has cratered, and the Coyotes had him for more than half the season - and they didn't see him as a pure rental; they hoped to re-sign him. Some of it is bad luck (there's no way his shooting percentage remains 2.7%), but I think his value has dropped dramatically from that.

 

[bustaheims]

Any goaltenders out there worth trying to trade for?

Unless you're talking depth/3rd string goalie, not really. Trading for a starter can be risky in season in a normal year. This year, with having to quarantine, not having much practice time, etc., it's just a really terrible idea.