Unofficial 2012/2013 Armchair GM

[dappleganger]

Kessel 7m/7 years?

Edit: maybe 6.5m

 

[Bullfrog]

I'm no engineer but do foundations even have walls? I thought you built a wall on a foundation.

That's how I've always understood it.

Foundations can take many forms. But essentially it includes those elements that transfer the loads from the super-structure to the soil beneath. This includes footings (footers in the US) and foundation walls in shallow foundations and piles, caissons, etc. on deep foundations.

 

[maplesyrup]

What if you live on a boat?

 

[sneakyray]

my guess is that kessel will sign a 5+ year extension this offseason for a little under 6mil per

ie. 5 years 28.75 mil

I'd be shocked if he just gets a "marginal" raise to under $6 mil. Whether people think he is worth it or not, I can't see him getting less than $6.5 per year.

the only way I'd be happy with that is if the guy comes out next year and pots 50.  I'd like to see phaneuf take a haircut on his next deal too.  Theres just no way in my mind that both of these guys deserve significantly more than lupul.

 

[caver]

What if you live on a boat?

Excellent point !

 

[Rebel_1812]

my guess is that kessel will sign a 5+ year extension this offseason for a little under 6mil per

ie. 5 years 28.75 mil

I'd be shocked if he just gets a "marginal" raise to under $6 mil. Whether people think he is worth it or not, I can't see him getting less than $6.5 per year.

the only way I'd be happy with that is if the guy comes out next year and pots 50.  I'd like to see phaneuf take a haircut on his next deal too.  Theres just no way in my mind that both of these guys deserve significantly more than lupul.

They won't be making less.  They would want highier contracts if for no other reason then due to inflation.  Also if the Leafs won't give them a raise, another team will. 

 

[sneakyray]

my guess is that kessel will sign a 5+ year extension this offseason for a little under 6mil per

ie. 5 years 28.75 mil

I'd be shocked if he just gets a "marginal" raise to under $6 mil. Whether people think he is worth it or not, I can't see him getting less than $6.5 per year.

the only way I'd be happy with that is if the guy comes out next year and pots 50.  I'd like to see phaneuf take a haircut on his next deal too.  Theres just no way in my mind that both of these guys deserve significantly more than lupul.

They won't be making less.  They would want highier contracts if for no other reason then due to inflation.  Also if the Leafs won't give them a raise, another team will.

I can see it with Kessel cause he scores the goals...But I would be very surprised if phaneuf gets a raise at all with his next deal.  Hes a good d-man and the captain, but he ain't no 6.5 million good.

 

[Britishbulldog]

my guess is that kessel will sign a 5+ year extension this offseason for a little under 6mil per

ie. 5 years 28.75 mil

I'd be shocked if he just gets a "marginal" raise to under $6 mil. Whether people think he is worth it or not, I can't see him getting less than $6.5 per year.

the only way I'd be happy with that is if the guy comes out next year and pots 50.  I'd like to see phaneuf take a haircut on his next deal too.  Theres just no way in my mind that both of these guys deserve significantly more than lupul.

They won't be making less.  They would want highier contracts if for no other reason then due to inflation.  Also if the Leafs won't give them a raise, another team will.

Kessel is NOT that much better than other Leafs to deserve twice as much money than them.

Phaneuf is decent but is not a $6.5 MIL player.

Edit: you beat me to it sneakyray

 

[bustaheims]

Kessel is NOT that much better than other Leafs to deserve twice as much money than them.

Except that he absolutely is that much better than most of the team. He's that much more important to the team's success.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Kessel is NOT that much better than other Leafs to deserve twice as much money than them.

Yeah, I think I'd take one Kessel over two of any other Leafs forward. Most of them rather easily.

 

[sneakyray]

I like Kessel alot. I think he is a hell of a scorer and pretty much everytime he gets the puck with room he is gone!  I wish he would go to the net a little harder (especially when he has a step on the outside of the D) but he has a shot at getting 50 goals in the next few years.  I just don't think he is worth 7+ million on a long term deal.  I mostly base this on Lupul's deal (so maybe you could say that I think Lupul is underpaid) as I do not think that Kessel is worth 2 million more per season than Lupes. 

I do think that Kessel will re-sign in TO and it should be somewhere around 6 per on a longish deal.  If it takes anywhere around 8mil per to get him to stay then he needs to be traded...but I don't think that will happen.  He has only said he likes it here so I think he will stay.

 

[Britishbulldog]

Kessel is NOT that much better than other Leafs to deserve twice as much money than them.

Yeah, I think I'd take one Kessel over two of any other Leafs forward. Most of them rather easily.

well Busta and CTB, I must have a biased opinion against the Leafs because I don't feel Kessel is worth more than $5.4 MIL in a CAP system, nor do I feel that Grabovski is worth $5.5 MIL as a 2nd line center in a CAP system but I really like both players.

Even with the various talented forwards the Leafs have I still feel that the Leafs need a stud forward.  Unless this group of forwards is the ones that the Leafs feel will lead them to the Stanley Cup, 1 or 2 top forwards contracts will have to be moved to make room for an elite forward.

 

[Rebel_1812]

my guess is that kessel will sign a 5+ year extension this offseason for a little under 6mil per

ie. 5 years 28.75 mil

I'd be shocked if he just gets a "marginal" raise to under $6 mil. Whether people think he is worth it or not, I can't see him getting less than $6.5 per year.

the only way I'd be happy with that is if the guy comes out next year and pots 50.  I'd like to see phaneuf take a haircut on his next deal too.  Theres just no way in my mind that both of these guys deserve significantly more than lupul.

They won't be making less.  They would want highier contracts if for no other reason then due to inflation.  Also if the Leafs won't give them a raise, another team will.

Kessel is NOT that much better than other Leafs to deserve twice as much money than them.

Phaneuf is decent but is not a $6.5 MIL player.

Edit: you beat me to it sneakyray

But do you think another GM would pay that amount or more for either player.  Of course.  The Leafs need to pay market rate to keep them or convince them to take a hometown discount.  Either way it is wishful thinking to think either player would take less money for his next contract.

 

[Britishbulldog]

Can a team trade either cap space and/or salary or are they linked.  For instance if the Leafs wanted to trade Komisarek to NYI could the Leafs pay 50% of the salary and let NYI have the full cap hit or if the Leafs retain 50% of the salary do they automatically retain 50% of the cap hit?

 

[bustaheims]

Can a team trade either cap space and/or salary or are they linked.  For instance if the Leafs wanted to trade Komisarek to NYI could the Leafs pay 50% of the salary and let NYI have the full cap hit or if the Leafs retain 50% of the salary do they automatically retain 50% of the cap hit?

They're linked. You can't trade one without the other.

 

[Kin]

Even with the various talented forwards the Leafs have I still feel that the Leafs need a stud forward.  Unless this group of forwards is the ones that the Leafs feel will lead them to the Stanley Cup, 1 or 2 top forwards contracts will have to be moved to make room for an elite forward.

That assumes, though, that the big time forward the Leafs bring in will be via free agency which, if you look at the history of cup winners post-cap, seems like a pretty big longshot. Just off the top of my head I can't think of a single forward on a cup winner that came with a 6+ million dollar cap hit who wasn't playing for the team that drafted him.

One of the things that's pretty standard with cup winners is getting contributions from guys on their rookie deals. Staal in Carolina, Perry and Getzlaf in Anaheim, Malkin and Staal in Pittsburgh, everyone in Chicago, Seguin in Boston and so on and so forth.

That's where the Leafs need to make up the gap, not in the difference between Grabo and Getzlaf.

 

[Britishbulldog]

Can a team trade either cap space and/or salary or are they linked.  For instance if the Leafs wanted to trade Komisarek to NYI could the Leafs pay 50% of the salary and let NYI have the full cap hit or if the Leafs retain 50% of the salary do they automatically retain 50% of the cap hit?

They're linked. You can't trade one without the other.

Thanks Busta.  I thought so but couldn't confirm it with research.

 

[Britishbulldog]

Even with the various talented forwards the Leafs have I still feel that the Leafs need a stud forward.  Unless this group of forwards is the ones that the Leafs feel will lead them to the Stanley Cup, 1 or 2 top forwards contracts will have to be moved to make room for an elite forward.

That assumes, though, that the big time forward the Leafs bring in will be via free agency which, if you look at the history of cup winners post-cap, seems like a pretty big longshot. Just off the top of my head I can't think of a single forward on a cup winner that came with a 6+ million dollar cap hit who wasn't playing for the team that drafted him.

One of the things that's pretty standard with cup winners is getting contributions from guys on their rookie deals. Staal in Carolina, Perry and Getzlaf in Anaheim, Malkin and Staal in Pittsburgh, everyone in Chicago, Seguin in Boston and so on and so forth.

That's where the Leafs need to make up the gap, not in the difference between Grabo and Getzlaf.

Good points Nik. 

The closest was Hossa who was $5.25 MIL CAP hit which was kind of cheating as he actually has been making $7.9 MIL for 7 years with only $1 MIL for the final 4 years but he is the exception not the norm.

 

[Champ Kind]

Whether Kessel is the right "go-to" guy for the Leafs might be open to debate, but there is no debating that he is easily the most skilled player on the Leafs and worth every bit of, say, $7M on a close-to-max deal.  He has outperformed his current contract and is playing in line with others making that much (if not more).

Phaneuf, on the other hand, has underperformed his current deal but, to me, is a central figure on this team moving forward.  The guy is a warrior, plays hard, and is maturing.  He's a different player now than when he was 21 or 22.  Inflation or not (Liles, for instance, signed for less than his previous deal to stay in Toronto), I think Phaneuf needs to be resigned but somewhere in the $5M - $5.5M range on a long-term deal.

 

[Corn Flake]

Phaneuf, on the other hand, has underperformed his current deal but, to me, is a central figure on this team moving forward.  The guy is a warrior, plays hard, and is maturing.  He's a different player now than when he was 21 or 22.  Inflation or not (Liles, for instance, signed for less than his previous deal to stay in Toronto), I think Phaneuf needs to be resigned but somewhere in the $5M - $5.5M range on a long-term deal.

I think a lot of Phaneuf's regression offensively is more about the role he is being asked to play than anything else.  Each night he is up against the other team's best players which is never a small task but one he has done fairly well this year, minus a few hiccup games.  Yes there are going to be teams and games where he (and the rest of the team defensively) are simply overmatched, like the Rangers game, but all in all he's the guy who anchors the defense and in this system has been mostly effective.  The -6 rating is kind of bizarre, especially after the Habs game. 

I would imagine if there is a new deal being looked at, he can't expect to make more for sure and probably is signable at a bit less.. maybe just under $6 mil.