Unofficial 2013-2014 Armchair GM Thread

[Frank E]

I guess we can settle on them being close, certainly nowhere near the difference between Luke and JvR. I'd still give the edge to Gardiner, perhaps just for the fact that he's a defenceman and not available as often.

Maybe I should watch more of Brayden Schenn.

The difference between Luke and JVR NOW... but when that trade was made, it was pretty much a saw-off at that time.  Philly fans wanted more, Leaf fans wanted more, thankfully it ended up in our favour.

And like Frank E says, Jake Gardiner is avg over 20 min and has a grand total of 0 goals and 5 points.  Schenn has 7 goals and 8 assists.  We're not talking about world beaters either way, but Schenns performing at a decent level.  Gardiners performing at a poor level and even being benched.  I just can't stress it enough, at this point in time, I'd wager GM's view their values as pretty dead on- if not in favour of Schenn.

If Gardiner is performing at a poor level, why is he averaging the most even-strength time on ice per game for the Leafs?  More than Phaneuf.

Either someone here has to admit Carlyle is playing a bad player this much, or that Gardiner isn't as bad as is being said about him.

Which is why his benching seems idiotic to me.  You're playing this player the most ES minutes on the team one game and suddenly he's benched the next?  Mixed signals.

As much as he's been maligned lately, I think Carlyle is really trying to develop the kid.

You watch the games as much as I do...you have to admit that he's not earning that ice-time based on his play and production.  No?

His production isn't where I'd like it, but really none of the team's is and none of the D's are.

When I watch him I think he controls the play and settles the play down better than anyone on the team, at least better than anyone on the D.  I honestly don't know where it came from that he deserved to be benched after the Columbus game, I don't think he was any worse than the rest of the team.

We'll disagree then.  I get nervous as hell when he's got the puck.

As I said, I enjoy watching him carry the puck, but that's where it ends for me.  I don't like the decisions he makes, and he's so all-over-the-place that nobody really knows what he's going to do with it...then nothing comes of it.  I find his defensive zone awareness and decisions to be poor. 

I do agree that he's not alone with his poor defensive play, no argument there from me.  Fraser has been really bad, and Franson and Ranger have been varying degrees of bad.  I think Rielly has been suspect there too.

I find Rielly much more effective with his rushes, and I certainly hope he improves at a greater pace than Gardiner.

 

[Redleaf]

The shakeup I think I would do right now, based on two rumored deals.

Gleason for Liles  <-- brings a d-man we can use in for a d-man we are not using. Gleason can bring some badly needed physical play on defense as well as he should solidify a 2nd pairing with Franson, pushing Fraser or Ranger to the press box and can handle shut down duties as a secondary to Phaneuf. 

Gardiner for B. Schenn <-- the above trade makes this one a bit easier, but I think we are getting close to having to cut bait with Gardiner before his value starts to drop. Both players on last year of ELC, both have high ceilings but IMO Schenn is more likely to hit his. He brings more fearless physical play up front which I think we need right now, and Rielly to me is already quietly sneaking ahead of Gardiner on the depth chart. He's just a smarter player and a touch more conservative with his decisions, which is what this team needs now and into the future.

other: pick up Klesla on waivers or make a deal with Phx to dump some salary for him.  Not sure why Klesla is being moved out but he was at one point a pretty solid defensive d-man.  Has great size and what not.

Bottom line to me is I think the holes in this lineup are becoming very clear and if the deals out there are reasonable, Nonis should be pulling the trigger.  Would wake this team up a bit and also more importantly fill some leaks.

I've been advocating a Gardiner for Brayden Schenn trade for a few weeks now myself. I think Brayden can break out in a big way, much like JVR has this season. I see Gardiner becoming a real good offensive type d-man down the road, but Schenn probably has the higher ceiling, and will probably reach it sooner.

The only problem with a trade like that going down is the timing. I don't see Nonis jumping on a trade like that now or anytime soon for that matter. Like he told everyone the day he took over from Burke, he's a very patient person, perhaps too patient for some. Unless the Leafs start to tank and fall out of playoff contention, I think he sits on this type of trade.

 

[princedpw]

It is unlikely Philly would part with him, but I'd be looking in to Couturier too.

 

[Corn Flake]

I've been advocating a Gardiner for Brayden Schenn trade for a few weeks now myself. I think Brayden can break out in a big way, much like JVR has this season. I see Gardiner becoming a real good offensive type d-man down the road, but Schenn probably has the higher ceiling, and will probably reach it sooner.

The only problem with a trade like that going down is the timing. I don't see Nonis jumping on a trade like that now or anytime soon for that matter. Like he told everyone the day he took over from Burke, he's a very patient person, perhaps too patient for some. Unless the leafs start to tank and fall out of playoff contention, I think he sits on this type of trade.

Nonis has made quite a number of fairly bold moves since he took over, esp. this past off season from the draft onward.  I don't think he's as 'sit on his hands' as he once was.  I also think this team is making the needs abundantly clear so he should know what he needs to go get. So now it's a matter of good trades to be made vs. any trade or teams trying to take advantage of him as if he's going to panic with the recent slide.

 

[Redleaf]

I've been advocating a Gardiner for Brayden Schenn trade for a few weeks now myself. I think Brayden can break out in a big way, much like JVR has this season. I see Gardiner becoming a real good offensive type d-man down the road, but Schenn probably has the higher ceiling, and will probably reach it sooner.

The only problem with a trade like that going down is the timing. I don't see Nonis jumping on a trade like that now or anytime soon for that matter. Like he told everyone the day he took over from Burke, he's a very patient person, perhaps too patient for some. Unless the leafs start to tank and fall out of playoff contention, I think he sits on this type of trade.

Nonis has made quite a number of fairly bold moves since he took over, esp. this past off season from the draft onward.  I don't think he's as 'sit on his hands' as he once was.  I also think this team is making the needs abundantly clear so he should know what he needs to go get. So now it's a matter of good trades to be made vs. any trade or teams trying to take advantage of him as if he's going to panic with the recent slide.

Perhaps. Like I said, I'd be pretty happy if that trade went down anytime soon, and quite a bit surprised as well.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

That's why I want him.  He can fill-in at centre when the injuries are an issue.  Basically, he would Bolland's understudy.  He can play all 3 positions.

Enh. I can't support moving Gardiner for a guy who would play on the 3rd line when everyone is healthy - especially when the team has more pressing needs.

I don't disagree necessarily, but this teams strong offensive start has fallen off pretty dramatically. Obviously injuries to Bolland and Lupul don't help (though Lupul's last few games we were still having trouble scoring).

I'm starting to wonder if Kulemin needs to be moved. Virtually no offence and while he's not paid a ton he's paid too much for close to zero production. I also wonder about McClement.

The problem with this roster is there are offensive players who don't play much D and Defensive forwards who don't score at all. Then there's a useless 4th line that doesn't do either. That's a major issue.

 

[Redleaf]

That's why I want him.  He can fill-in at centre when the injuries are an issue.  Basically, he would Bolland's understudy.  He can play all 3 positions.

Enh. I can't support moving Gardiner for a guy who would play on the 3rd line when everyone is healthy - especially when the team has more pressing needs.

I don't disagree necessarily, but this teams strong offensive start has fallen off pretty dramatically. Obviously injuries to Bolland and Lupul don't help (though Lupul's last few games we were still having trouble scoring).

I'm starting to wonder if Kulemin needs to be moved. Virtually no offence and while he's not paid a ton he's paid too much for close to zero production. I also wonder about McClement.

The problem with this roster is there are offensive players who don't play much D and Defensive forwards who don't score at all. Then there's a useless 4th line that doesn't do either. That's a major issue.

The teams goes in a funk, like virtually every other team in the league does from time to time, and you want to get rid of our two best defensive forwards? The only thing that would do is keeps us in a funk for the foreseeable future.

 

[Frank E]

The problem with this roster is there are offensive players who don't play much D and Defensive forwards who don't score at all. Then there's a useless 4th line that doesn't do either. That's a major issue.

I think there's some truth to that statement...along with the d-men that don't play defensively (EDIT: or offensively) well enough.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

That's why I want him.  He can fill-in at centre when the injuries are an issue.  Basically, he would Bolland's understudy.  He can play all 3 positions.

Enh. I can't support moving Gardiner for a guy who would play on the 3rd line when everyone is healthy - especially when the team has more pressing needs.

I don't disagree necessarily, but this teams strong offensive start has fallen off pretty dramatically. Obviously injuries to Bolland and Lupul don't help (though Lupul's last few games we were still having trouble scoring).

I'm starting to wonder if Kulemin needs to be moved. Virtually no offence and while he's not paid a ton he's paid too much for close to zero production. I also wonder about McClement.

The problem with this roster is there are offensive players who don't play much D and Defensive forwards who don't score at all. Then there's a useless 4th line that doesn't do either. That's a major issue.

The teams goes in a funk, like virtually every other team in the league does from time to time, and you want to get rid of our two best defensive forwards? The only thing that would do is keeps us in a funk for the foreseeable future.

I said I'm starting to wonder "if". I didn't say I definitively think they need to be moved.

It does seem to be a problem though that our best defensive forwards are only on the team to provide one skill (or are coached that way, or have zero luck, whatever). I honestly don't know but how many other successful teams employ forwards for this purpose and do they see a regular shift?

Guys like Boyd Gordon, Chris Kelly all play heavy PK minutes but also put up pts. It's not very hard for other teams to play against you when they know they only need to play defence against half the lines you've iced.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I really hope at some point before we eventually lose Kulemin he gets another shot to play some extended minutes on a line without McClement.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I'm starting to wonder if Kulemin needs to be moved. Virtually no offence and while he's not paid a ton he's paid too much for close to zero production. I also wonder about McClement.

Playing 60% of your ice time with McClement will do that.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

The problem with this roster is there are offensive players who don't play much D and Defensive forwards who don't score at all. Then there's a useless 4th line that doesn't do either. That's a major issue.

I think there's some truth to that statement...along with the d-men that don't play defensively (EDIT: or offensively) well enough.

True. In my books the only rounded players on this team are Phaneuf and Bolland and maybe Clarkson and Bozak (maybe Raymond as well) the rest for the most part are either one or the other. JVR seems to be coming around to the defensive game with his time on the PK.

Maybe that's a strategy of Nonis/Carlyle? Have one defensively responsible forward on each line? Bozak on the first, Clarkson on the second, Bolland on the 3rd (Kuli as well though the offence isn't there). I don't know.

 

[Kin]

I really hope at some point before we eventually lose Kulemin he gets another shot to play some extended minutes on a line without McClement.

I mean, I appreciate the point re: McClement's influence on someone's offensive output but considering we're into year three of Kulemin having trouble finding the back of the net I don't know I'd go too hard in that direction.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

That's why I want him.  He can fill-in at centre when the injuries are an issue.  Basically, he would Bolland's understudy.  He can play all 3 positions.

Enh. I can't support moving Gardiner for a guy who would play on the 3rd line when everyone is healthy - especially when the team has more pressing needs.

I don't disagree necessarily, but this teams strong offensive start has fallen off pretty dramatically. Obviously injuries to Bolland and Lupul don't help (though Lupul's last few games we were still having trouble scoring).

I'm starting to wonder if Kulemin needs to be moved. Virtually no offence and while he's not paid a ton he's paid too much for close to zero production. I also wonder about McClement.

The problem with this roster is there are offensive players who don't play much D and Defensive forwards who don't score at all. Then there's a useless 4th line that doesn't do either. That's a major issue.

The teams goes in a funk, like virtually every other team in the league does from time to time, and you want to get rid of our two best defensive forwards? The only thing that would do is keeps us in a funk for the foreseeable future.

I said I'm starting to wonder "if". I didn't say I definitively think they need to be moved.

It does seem to be a problem though that our best defensive forwards are only on the team to provide one skill (or are coached that way, or have zero luck, whatever). I honestly don't know but how many other successful teams employ forwards for this purpose and do they see a regular shift?

Guys like Boyd Gordon, Chris Kelly all play heavy PK minutes but also put up pts. It's not very hard for other teams to play against you when they know they only need to play defence against half the lines you've iced.

Boyd Gordon puts up points?  Kulemin has outscored him every season.  Kelly has only outscored Kulemin once.  Unless you mean only McClement.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

There's a misunderstanding that Kulemin put up poor numbers last season.  He scored at around a 40 point pace last season, while starting shifts in the offensive zone only 21 % of the time.  Only McClement's was lower among forwards.  Only Grabovski (barely) and McClement started more in the defensive zone among forwards.  He faced the toughest opposition among forwards, up there with the top line.  He had no PP time (0:25 secs per game).

40 points is not poor production for the way he was deployed last season.  That's a very good pace and very much a valuable part of the roster.

 

[Frank E]

There's a misunderstanding that Kulemin put up poor numbers last season.  He scored at around a 40 point pace last season, while starting shifts in the offensive zone only 21 % of the time.  Only McClement's was lower among forwards.  Only Grabovski (barely) and McClement started more in the defensive zone among forwards.  He faced the toughest opposition among forwards, up there with the top line.  He had no PP time (0:25 secs per game).

40 points is not poor production for the way he was deployed last season.  That's a very good pace and very much a valuable part of the roster.

I think that's a good point, but he's not doing that this year... 6 goal/25 point pace this year.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

There's a misunderstanding that Kulemin put up poor numbers last season.  He scored at around a 40 point pace last season, while starting shifts in the offensive zone only 21 % of the time.  Only McClement's was lower among forwards.  Only Grabovski (barely) and McClement started more in the defensive zone among forwards.  He faced the toughest opposition among forwards, up there with the top line.  He had no PP time (0:25 secs per game).

40 points is not poor production for the way he was deployed last season.  That's a very good pace and very much a valuable part of the roster.

I think that's a good point, but he's not doing that this year... 6 goal/25 point pace this year.

Sure, but he's playing with McClement this season instead of Grabovski.  You can't really expect the same offensive production, but at least he's still virtually the same player all over the ice.

 

[Frank E]

There's a misunderstanding that Kulemin put up poor numbers last season.  He scored at around a 40 point pace last season, while starting shifts in the offensive zone only 21 % of the time.  Only McClement's was lower among forwards.  Only Grabovski (barely) and McClement started more in the defensive zone among forwards.  He faced the toughest opposition among forwards, up there with the top line.  He had no PP time (0:25 secs per game).

40 points is not poor production for the way he was deployed last season.  That's a very good pace and very much a valuable part of the roster.

I think that's a good point, but he's not doing that this year... 6 goal/25 point pace this year.

Sure, but he's playing with McClement this season instead of Grabovski.  You can't really expect the same offensive production, but at least he's still virtually the same player all over the ice.

I'm a big Kulemin fan, especially when he gets pissed off and hits hard. 

It just seems to me that he's lost some of his mojo. 

 

[Jalili]

I'm a big Kulemin fan, especially when he gets pissed off and hits hard. 

It just seems to me that he's lost some of his mojo.

I feel the same way.

I like Kulemin and want to see him do well, but it's as if the guy needs a change of scenery.

Worst case scenario... if the Leafs keep this up and are out of the playoff race at the deadline, maybe they flip Kulemin to the Pens for one of their D prospects. I bet Kulemin would light it up with Malkin and Neal.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

I'm a big Kulemin fan, especially when he gets pissed off and hits hard. 

It just seems to me that he's lost some of his mojo.

I feel the same way.

I like Kulemin and want to see him do well, but it's as if the guy needs a change of scenery.

Worst case scenario... if the Leafs keep this up and are out of the playoff race at the deadline, maybe they flip Kulemin to the Pens for one of their D prospects. I bet Kulemin would light it up with Malkin and Neal.

I'm not sure that speaks so much to Kulemin's talents as much as it does to Neal and Malkin being superstars.

How many people would like to see Kuli on the 1st line here (I don't buy that Crosby's line is the #1)?