Zaitsev's fine, but I can't get over that being at least 2 years too long and probably $0.5-1mil too much.
Zaitsev's extension made official
- Thread starter CarltonTheBear
- Start date
Zaitsev's fine, but I can't get over that being at least 2 years too long and probably $0.5-1mil too much.
bustaheims
Active member
CarltonTheBear said:
A little long I can buy - though, it's not like Zaitsev will be particularly old when it ends - but, taking a look at defencemen with similar cap hits, outside of a couple guys who are clearly underpaid, Zaitsev fits well into that group, and could easily end up providing better value than many.
mr grieves
New member
Isn't there also an out in the CBA for these contracts to Euro free agents?
I think the Athletic podcast mentioned they could be sent back to the clubs with no cap penalty (NHL team pays the salary while they play over there)
I think the Athletic podcast mentioned they could be sent back to the clubs with no cap penalty (NHL team pays the salary while they play over there)
bustaheims said:
To commit THAT many years for a guy with 1 NHL year under his belt, I'd expect a fairer cap hit in return. Just seems like such a massive risk.
I'm also generally in the "only give top line talent 7 years term" camp. Zaitsev right now is our 3rd best defenceman. And we still need to find somebody to bump him down to the 4 slot where he belongs.
Also, and this may be where I differ from most, I really don't think Zaitsev is that good defensively.
herman
Well-known member
Ideally, we get someone to slot into the matchup slot to free up Zaitsev into an offensive role, where he would easily make this contract a steal.
Edit: based on what I saw from him at the World Cup and YouTube, I think he's got some runway on his growth curve, especially with familiarizing to the league and the players he encounters. Defense just takes so many reps to turn positioning to instinct.
Zaitsev's case is similar to Rielly's in my mind, as they were leaned on by their teams to be 4th forwards more than defensemen, and the defense aspect of their development still has room to grow. Their physical tools are definitely there, but it takes experience to naturally know which side of an attacker to pressure, which direction to pivot optimally to keep the gap, and building up that mental dossier on the tendencies of high-danger attackers to shortcut decision-making time.
Edit: based on what I saw from him at the World Cup and YouTube, I think he's got some runway on his growth curve, especially with familiarizing to the league and the players he encounters. Defense just takes so many reps to turn positioning to instinct.
Zaitsev's case is similar to Rielly's in my mind, as they were leaned on by their teams to be 4th forwards more than defensemen, and the defense aspect of their development still has room to grow. Their physical tools are definitely there, but it takes experience to naturally know which side of an attacker to pressure, which direction to pivot optimally to keep the gap, and building up that mental dossier on the tendencies of high-danger attackers to shortcut decision-making time.
herman
Well-known member
https://twitter.com/CapFriendly/status/859457014807900160
www.twitter.com/CapFriendly/status/859457014807900160
3M signing bonus for each of the first three years, then 2M for the last two years. Two years of no signing bonus.
Concessions from both sides? Extend term past lockout potential year, but no signing bonus guaranteed for that year.
www.twitter.com/CapFriendly/status/859457014807900160
3M signing bonus for each of the first three years, then 2M for the last two years. Two years of no signing bonus.
Concessions from both sides? Extend term past lockout potential year, but no signing bonus guaranteed for that year.
ZBBM
Active member
I am leaning carltonish on this one since I too wasn't *that* impressed with his defense. OTOH there aren't a lot of options out there now (other than trying to find the next Zaitsev, e.g., Rosen) so it does make sense to nail him down.
To me the thing that would lift this deal out of the near-meh category is whether Zaitsev really does improve a bit more. Yes, and the contract becomes a sweetheart. But since he's already played in the KHL for 7 years, one has to wonder how much better he could possibly get (in terms of the details herman mentions).
To me the thing that would lift this deal out of the near-meh category is whether Zaitsev really does improve a bit more. Yes, and the contract becomes a sweetheart. But since he's already played in the KHL for 7 years, one has to wonder how much better he could possibly get (in terms of the details herman mentions).
mr grieves
New member
mr grieves said:
This is mentioned at around 21:00 of the podcast (Leafs Ep. 19), Dave Alter is probably alluding to what I heard in this write up on the deal:
disco
New member
$4.5-million is totally the going rate for responsible top-four D in this day and age. This regime seems comfortable with 5+ year deals for players that have shown the willingness to work at being the best they can be. See Kadri, Reilly. Term is the major way to keep AAV down. And the Leafs are being smart about it.
Reilly - $5-million
Kadri - $4.5-million
Zaitsev - $4.5-million
Smh a bit at the hate-on Grapes has for Zaitzy. No one's saying he's fricking Bobby Orr. I watched most games this year, he played well for us. A lot of good players were a minus on this club, simply a by product of playing for this team right now. Team defense was not their strong point in the first half for sure.
Leafs are playing a 4th forward style with their D with a winger periodically covering their spot to generate offence. I rarely saw bad pinches in the 2nd half where it was a blatant two-on-one coming the other way. Gardiner and Reilly can play this style. As can Zaitsev. Even if we don't end up drafting / signing in FA that big number-one stud, having a total of six D that can play this style with strong hockey IQ, will be very dangerous. Especially with these forward corps.
Reilly - $5-million
Kadri - $4.5-million
Zaitsev - $4.5-million
Smh a bit at the hate-on Grapes has for Zaitzy. No one's saying he's fricking Bobby Orr. I watched most games this year, he played well for us. A lot of good players were a minus on this club, simply a by product of playing for this team right now. Team defense was not their strong point in the first half for sure.
Leafs are playing a 4th forward style with their D with a winger periodically covering their spot to generate offence. I rarely saw bad pinches in the 2nd half where it was a blatant two-on-one coming the other way. Gardiner and Reilly can play this style. As can Zaitsev. Even if we don't end up drafting / signing in FA that big number-one stud, having a total of six D that can play this style with strong hockey IQ, will be very dangerous. Especially with these forward corps.
disco
New member
sickbeast said:
Invisible? Came off a fresh concussion and tossed into the playoff fire. Completely off by his own admission, didn't feel himself until near the end, which were several 2-1 games. "Horrible", that's a big stretch. Plus/minus? Reilly -20, Zaitsev -22. Like Morgan, relied on heavily during this season to play against other team's best. Not an accurate stat I believe for a team that played bad team defense and got better as the season progressed. And apparently, Leaf management disagrees with you.
That's fine. I was wrong about Andersen and I could be wrong again. In fairness, Reimer had almost identical stats to Andersen this past season, so in a sense I was "right" about that. The Leafs could have signed Reimer without sacrificing any draft picks.disco said:
I will say that Zeitsev is very slick with the puck and he is a great passer. I'm not saying he's a bad player. I'm saying he by no means deserves a 7 year contract at $4+ million per season. It could turn out to be a real albatross and he might wind up as a resident of Robidas Island.
L K
Active member
The playoff performance has me a little wary but aside from idiots like Don Cherry who look at his +/- as the defining level of his play, he's a decent mid-pairing defenseman who still has the potential to maybe become more of a 2/3 guy instead of a 3/4 guy. I think that's worth the risk and if he achieves that, he will be well underpaid at 4.5M.