2012-2013 NHL Thread

[ZBBM]

Can't deny it ... but at some point the exigencies of the market reign supreme.  It could be forced down Bettman and the union's collective gullet.

There's still way too many potential options for relocation to attempt before that becomes a problem. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if that's the league's hope - relocate a couple Eastern teams out west and then get some sweet sweet expansion money for a team in Quebec City and another in the GTA.

At which point I think the Leafs should self-contract and start a rival league.  That would teach old Gary and Co.

 

[bustaheims]

At which point I think the Leafs should self-contract and start a rival league.  That would teach old Gary and Co.

Well, no, it would actually more likely mean the end of the Toronto Maple Leafs, what with the lawsuits that would come out for all various agreements they'd have to break in order to do so and the lack of support they'd likely see outside the GTA. The NHL can survive without the Leafs (though, they'd obviously not do as well). The Leafs would have a much harder time surviving without the NHL. On top of that, another team in the GTA isn't necessarily a bad thing for the Leafs. They'd still be the #1 ticket in town. They'd still sell out every home game and bring in big bucks for their TV rights. They'd still be the most profitable and most valuable team in the league.

 

[ZBBM]

At which point I think the Leafs should self-contract and start a rival league.  That would teach old Gary and Co.

Well, no, it would actually more likely mean the end of the Toronto Maple Leafs, what with the lawsuits that would come out for all various agreements they'd have to break in order to do so and the lack of support they'd likely see outside the GTA. The NHL can survive without the Leafs (though, they'd obviously not do as well). The Leafs would have a much harder time surviving without the NHL. On top of that, another team in the GTA isn't necessarily a bad thing for the Leafs. They'd still be the #1 ticket in town. They'd still sell out every home game and bring in big bucks for their TV rights. They'd still be the most profitable and most valuable team in the league.

I was mostly kidding but I actually don't agree.  I think the Leafs could truly reinvent themselves outside the NHL as the focus of a new league more than the NHL could survive if they walked.  Say, for example, they went to the top 5 franchises and said, why continue profit-sharing when in the new league we'll have none?

Anyway, no need to get into a big debate about a hypothetical that, as you say, will never happen.  My point is just that I think it would not be impossible.  And it sure as hell would be interesting ... a WHA with real leggz.

 

[bustaheims]

I was mostly kidding but I actually don't agree.  I think the Leafs could truly reinvent themselves outside the NHL as the focus of a new league more than the NHL could survive if they walked.  Say, for example, they went to the top 5 franchises and said, why continue profit-sharing when in the new league we'll have none?

Anyway, no need to get into a big debate about a hypothetical that, as you say, will never happen.  My point is just that I think it would not be impossible.  And it sure as hell would be interesting ... a WHA with real leggz.

Getting the other teams to go with them is a big if, but, even then, are you gonna run a 5 team league? Who's gonna put up the money for the other teams and where are they going to play? Also, you're in a situation where you have teams that have no players, because their contracts are all tied to a CBA they're no longer a part of. Sure, some will come with, but enough will still prioritize playing in the NHL and winning a Stanley Cup, because, realistically, the salary difference won't be that much because the earning potential of the teams that left has taken a significant hit. How much are fans going to pay to see games for what will be considered a 2nd tier league? How much will the broadcast rights go for - especially when, for the most part, the best players in the world are still playing in the NHL?

As for the NHL, if the Leafs left, the first thing they'd do is put an expansion team in the GTA, and there'd be nothing the Leafs could do to stop that. Between the expansion fees and the revenue from the new team, the league would soldier on.

 

[ZBBM]

I was mostly kidding but I actually don't agree.  I think the Leafs could truly reinvent themselves outside the NHL as the focus of a new league more than the NHL could survive if they walked.  Say, for example, they went to the top 5 franchises and said, why continue profit-sharing when in the new league we'll have none?

Anyway, no need to get into a big debate about a hypothetical that, as you say, will never happen.  My point is just that I think it would not be impossible.  And it sure as hell would be interesting ... a WHA with real leggz.

Getting the other teams to go with them is a big if, but, even then, are you gonna run a 5 team league? Who's gonna put up the money for the other teams and where are they going to play? Also, you're in a situation where you have teams that have no players, because their contracts are all tied to a CBA they're no longer a part of. Sure, some will come with, but enough will still prioritize playing in the NHL and winning a Stanley Cup, because, realistically, the salary difference won't be that much because the earning potential of the teams that left has taken a significant hit. How much are fans going to pay to see games for what will be considered a 2nd tier league? How much will the broadcast rights go for - especially when, for the most part, the best players in the world are still playing in the NHL?

As for the NHL, if the Leafs left, the first thing they'd do is put an expansion team in the GTA, and there'd be nothing the Leafs could do to stop that. Between the expansion fees and the revenue from the new team, the league would soldier on.

Yes, current owners/arenas, no, $100, untold millions, and the expansion fee would be piddling because the NHL would be on its knees.  8)

 

[Britishbulldog]

Contraction never has been and never will be a serious option. The union would fight against it with every resource available to them. It would mean eliminating potential revenue streams. It's just not something that's realistically on the table outside of being used as a fairly empty threat in negotiations. If anything, the league will be expanding to 32 teams in the next decade or so.

I agree with you bustaheims.  I know that Z B-B McFate was basically joking and I wish that with the thin talent pool in the NHL already with the 30 teams and KHL competing for players [edit] that contraction  was an option but [/edit] I believe that the expansion/relocation plans are already being worked on.

With Florida and Tampa Bay as the 2 most southern teams in the NHL being put in to the north eastern conference that has Markham, Hamilton and Quebec City all looking for teams I would speculate that it is a possibility of relocation in the next 10 years.

Expansion on the other hand has included Quebec City but also Seattle, Washington; Portland, Oregon; Las Vegas, Nevada; Kansas City, Missouri; and Houston, Texas.

Out of that list I think Seattle is the front runner but is trying to build its rink with public money which is most likely going to jeopardize an NHL team going there.

I really like the Portland idea as there is already the Rose Garden that houses 19,000+ that an NHL team can share the overhead with the NBA team.

I hate Las Vegas.

Kansas City is a great option too.  They also have a 19,000+ arena already and loyal sports fans to their current local teams.  Geographically it is a perfect Central location to boot.

Houston, Texas has a 2,000,000+ population who all love football.  Please avoid them Bettman.

My plan if I was commissioner and couldn't contract 2 teams:

Move Florida to Quebec City
Move Tampa Bay to Hamilton/Markham

Expand to Portland for the Pacific division 8th team
Expand to Kansas City for the Central division 8th team

 

[Jalili]

At which point I think the Leafs should self-contract and start a rival league.  That would teach old Gary and Co.

Well, no, it would actually more likely mean the end of the Toronto Maple Leafs, what with the lawsuits that would come out for all various agreements they'd have to break in order to do so and the lack of support they'd likely see outside the GTA. The NHL can survive without the Leafs (though, they'd obviously not do as well). The Leafs would have a much harder time surviving without the NHL. On top of that, another team in the GTA isn't necessarily a bad thing for the Leafs. They'd still be the #1 ticket in town. They'd still sell out every home game and bring in big bucks for their TV rights. They'd still be the most profitable and most valuable team in the league.

That would be a dream come true.

 

[leafplasma]

My plan if I was commissioner and couldn't contract 2 teams:

Move Florida to Quebec City
Move Tampa Bay to Hamilton/Markham

Expand to Portland for the Pacific division 8th team
Expand to Kansas City for the Central division 8th team

Sounds perfect!!!!

 

[Britishbulldog]

My plan if I was commissioner and couldn't contract 2 teams:

Move Florida to Quebec City
Move Tampa Bay to Hamilton/Markham

Expand to Portland for the Pacific division 8th team
Expand to Kansas City for the Central division 8th team

Sounds perfect!!!!

I really think so.

Looking at the re-alignment map the NHL published:

- Kansas City is right in the middle of Minnesota, Dallas, St. Louis and Colorado.  Basically where the big letter 'B' is on the map.

- Portland, ofcourse, far west coast between Vancouver and San Jose.

It would also remove the orange Florida appendage sticking out like a sore ________  (thumb?)

 

[bustaheims]

My plan if I was commissioner and couldn't contract 2 teams:

Move Florida to Quebec City
Move Tampa Bay to Hamilton/Markham

Expand to Portland for the Pacific division 8th team
Expand to Kansas City for the Central division 8th team

I think there's a good chance you have the cities right, but the methods of getting the teams there wrong. I also don't see the league completely abandoning the state of Florida. The Panthers are a good bet to move, and, given their current financial state, the other team that likely moves is New Jersey. They both go out west and Quebec City and Hamilton/Markham get expansion teams, because they'll generate more in expansion fees than Portland or KC would.

 

[Kin]

Out of that list I think Seattle is the front runner but is trying to build its rink with public money which is most likely going to jeopardize an NHL team going there.

I'm not sure what point you're making here. I mean, for starters, I'm fairly sure that the Arena deal there has already been made and that was the centrepiece of the effort made to buy the NBA's Kings this year and move them there but beyond that I'm not sure why you think that public money going towards a rink jeopardizes a NHL team there. If anything the NHL desperately wants subsidized arenas being built for their teams which is why teams like Detroit and Edmonton are getting public money for their new arenas.

Likewise, the arena projects in both Markham and Quebec City are ones that have involved large amounts of public money so I don't know why Seattle is being singled out here.

 

[hockeyfan1]

From Adam Proteau THN...

Yes, Seattle has the closest thing resembling an NHL-caliber rink, but if you?ve seen the decrepit Key Arena lately, you?d have to agree it?s not all that close.The reality is none of the three potential expansion areas are currently equipped to handle an NHL team without experiencing bumps in the road. Indeed, there would be growing pains and Band-Aid solutions for all three regions until modern arenas are built.

But ask yourself this: which two of those three areas could all but guarantee sellout crowds every night? Which two have hockey deeply embedded in their local culture? Which two wouldn?t need any assistance from the NHL?s revenue-sharing program?

...it also doesn?t make financial sense to expand to Seattle ahead of two underserviced Canadian markets. Hockey insiders have estimated the league could seek expansion franchise fees in the hundreds of millions for each Canadian team; prominent agent Allan Walsh estimated the number could reach $500 million ? per Canadian expansion team. Can you imagine someone in Seattle ponying up that amount of money? I can?t. Even the dollar amount quoted in the aforementioned report was $275 million for a Seattle expansion franchise; this seems extremely excessive.

Under the right circumstances a team in Seattle could thrive. But a better solution for that city is to land a relocated franchise.

The price of acquiring a relocated team would be far lower (the Winnipeg Jets paid some $60-million to the league in 2011) than an expansion fee... all expansion and relocation monies don?t have to be shared with NHL players. The league would be foolish to short shrift itself by leaving out a Canadian market in favor of Seattle.

 

[Kin]

Just when the Phoenix fiasco settled, now the Devils are in the same boat kind of, although not entirely the same, but none the less the league is taking over another team. Bettman wake up and fold a few teams, 30 is too many and the talent is being spread to thin over 30 teams.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=429396

So, a calendar week after this was framed as "the NHL taking over another team" they're apparently just about sold to the owner of the 76ers for 320 million dollars

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/9568909/new-jersey-devils-sale-josh-harris-officially-announced-thursday-source-says

 

[Frank E]

Just when the Phoenix fiasco settled, now the Devils are in the same boat kind of, although not entirely the same, but none the less the league is taking over another team. Bettman wake up and fold a few teams, 30 is too many and the talent is being spread to thin over 30 teams.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=429396

So, a calendar week after this was framed as "the NHL taking over another team" they're apparently just about sold to the owner of the 76ers for 320 million dollars

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/9568909/new-jersey-devils-sale-josh-harris-officially-announced-thursday-source-says

That lease must be valuable given the total transaction dollars.

 

[Deebo]

http://avalanche.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=678745

Landeskog signs a 7 year/39M extension with the Avs, AAV is 5.57M

After 69 points and only 118 NHL games played, he gets $39M. They must really believe in this guy in Colorado.

 

[hockeyfan1]

http://avalanche.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=678745

Landeskog signs a 7 year/39M extension with the Avs, AAV is 5.57M

After 69 points and only 118 NHL games played, he gets $39M. They must really believe in this guy in Colorado.

Maybe they know something we don't.  Realistically, Landeskog, barring injury, will probably be a key cog in the Av's offensive machinery, as he's already proven be a well-rounded dependable forward, at least to the Colorado organization.  They obviously believe lots more (in terms of good years) to come from him.

 

[KoHo]

http://avalanche.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=678745

Landeskog signs a 7 year/39M extension with the Avs, AAV is 5.57M

After 69 points and only 118 NHL games played, he gets $39M. They must really believe in this guy in Colorado.

Landeskog's their captain so a 7 year deal instead of a 2-3 year "bridge" contract isn't that surprising. 5.57 M could be a bargain in a couple of years, let alone 7 years down the road.

 

[bustaheims]

http://avalanche.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=678745

Landeskog signs a 7 year/39M extension with the Avs, AAV is 5.57M

After 69 points and only 118 NHL games played, he gets $39M. They must really believe in this guy in Colorado.

He's really going to have to ramp up his production if he's going to justify that contract in the short term, but, by the end of it, that money could be reasonable for how he's produced so far.

 

[Jalili]

Maybe they know something we don't.  Realistically, Landeskog, barring injury, will probably be a key cog in the Av's offensive machinery, as he's already proven be a well-rounded dependable forward, at least to the Colorado organization.  They obviously believe lots more (in terms of good years) to come from him.

The big scare is the injury he had this season. For that reason there is some risk involved.

But if his rookie year is an indicator of what's to come, then Landeskog is going to be worth it. The kind of guy you'd love to have on your team.

Long-term deals for potential can go either way. Myers in Buffalo hasn't worked out so well, but Hall looks like a bargain for Edmonton.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Finally...Long Island project nears approval for renovation/redevelopment of Nassau Coliseum & surrounding lands...

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/nhl/story/2013/08/16/sp-nhl-nassau-veterans-memorial-coliseum-closer-to-renovation-new-york-islanders.html