2012 CBA Negotiations Thread

[Corn Flake]

*skims last few pages of thread*

hoo boy.

Do we ever need hockey back so we can stop the arguments about this CBA crap, and get back to 200 page threads arguing about Phaneuf being a #1 d-man or not.

:-\

 

[Bates]

Nik I believe the NHL offer has $200 million in revenue sharing so not sure how you can say the proposal has nothing to address the teams that are losing money.

 

[Kin]

Nik I believe the NHL offer has $200 million in revenue sharing so not sure how you can say the proposal has nothing to address the teams that are losing money.

Lucky for me I didn't say that then. Elsewise I'd have looked a right fool for ignoring the fact that the NHL is willing to share a whopping 6% of their total revenues.

 

[Hampreacher]

I hope the counter offer is not another ploy like one Fehr pulled a couple of weeks back. If it is anything more that a minor tweak with a yes or no on those the owners just might say season done, bye. The players need to remember what the owners forgot in the last lockout. That is there will be another time to negotiate. If they feel like they were run over they will stand hard to win next time. Plus maybe you didn't get something on contract length or variance this time but will next time( or something else.)

 

[jdh1]

I hope the counter offer is not another ploy like one Fehr pulled a couple of weeks back. If it is anything more that a minor tweak with a yes or no on those the owners just might say season done, bye. The players need to remember what the owners forgot in the last lockout. That is there will be another time to negotiate. If they feel like they were run over they will stand hard to win next time. Plus maybe you didn't get something on contract length or variance this time but will next time( or something else.)

I hope so as well...because this is getting old,all this stalling by Fehr.They need to realize that about a dozen teams are hanging on to stay afloat financially.

 

[Kin]

I hope so as well...because this is getting old,all this stalling by Fehr.They need to realize that about a dozen teams are hanging on to stay afloat financially.

You'd think that would make the League less likely to cancel a season over things like contract term and year to year variance, not more.

 

[louisstamos]

I hope the counter offer is not another ploy like one Fehr pulled a couple of weeks back. If it is anything more that a minor tweak with a yes or no on those the owners just might say season done, bye. The players need to remember what the owners forgot in the last lockout. That is there will be another time to negotiate. If they feel like they were run over they will stand hard to win next time. Plus maybe you didn't get something on contract length or variance this time but will next time( or something else.)

Looks like the league is saying it's "take it or leave it" again:

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger

NHL has asked players to respond to all issues collectively and doesn't want to have to negotiate item by item. We will see how PA counters.

 

[Rebel_1812]

I hope the counter offer is not another ploy like one Fehr pulled a couple of weeks back. If it is anything more that a minor tweak with a yes or no on those the owners just might say season done, bye. The players need to remember what the owners forgot in the last lockout. That is there will be another time to negotiate. If they feel like they were run over they will stand hard to win next time. Plus maybe you didn't get something on contract length or variance this time but will next time( or something else.)

The owners need to remember that the union has filed a disclaimer of interest.  They will be getting a class action lawsuit as soon as the process is finished.  To cancel the season over take it or leave it rhetoric would not be seen as good faith negotiations in any future court case. 

 

[Rebel_1812]

I hope the counter offer is not another ploy like one Fehr pulled a couple of weeks back. If it is anything more that a minor tweak with a yes or no on those the owners just might say season done, bye. The players need to remember what the owners forgot in the last lockout. That is there will be another time to negotiate. If they feel like they were run over they will stand hard to win next time. Plus maybe you didn't get something on contract length or variance this time but will next time( or something else.)

Looks like the league is saying it's "take it or leave it" again:

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger

NHL has asked players to respond to all issues collectively and doesn't want to have to negotiate item by item. We will see how PA counters.

yeah its hard for an old dog to learn new tricks.

 

[hockeyfan1]

What does anyone think of this..

One part at the very end of the proposal would bring a change to the NHL Draft Lottery as we know it:

Implementation of a weighted Draft Lottery in which all non-Playoff teams compete for opportunity to choose first overall in the annual Draft....

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/nhl-proposes-draft-lottery-top-pick-open-non-190653533--nhl.html

 

[bustaheims]

Looks like the league is saying it's "take it or leave it" again:

Not really. They're saying "give us a complete proposal," rather than having the PA come back and negotiate individual items first. Once both sides have presented complete proposals, then they can negotiate the differences.

 

[Rebel_1812]

Looks like the league is saying it's "take it or leave it" again:

Not really. They're saying "give us a complete proposal," rather than having the PA come back and negotiate individual items first. Once both sides have presented complete proposals, then they can negotiate the differences.

Sorry but no.  Saying you cannot negotiate any part of the proposal is basically saying the proposal is non- negiotiable.

 

[bustaheims]

Sorry but no.  Saying you cannot negotiate any part of the proposal is basically saying the proposal is non- negiotiable.

But, that's not what they said. The NHL presented the PA with a 300 page proposal laying out where they stand on all the issues. They asked for the same type of proposal in return from the PA before they begin negotiating their positions on the differences. They want to know where the players stand on everything so they can actually do legitimate give-and-take negotiations rather than negotiate each individual element on its own. The league wants to negotiate the CBA as a whole.

If it was truly non-negotiable, they wouldn't have asked the players to respond to the issues at all. They would have asked for a decision.

 

[oldman]

What does anyone think of this..

One part at the very end of the proposal would bring a change to the NHL Draft Lottery as we know it:

Implementation of a weighted Draft Lottery in which all non-Playoff teams compete for opportunity to choose first overall in the annual Draft....

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/nhl-proposes-draft-lottery-top-pick-open-non-190653533--nhl.html

Part of me says this is Bettmans idea. Too easy for the NHL to "fix" it so they can choose which team gets the #1 like in 2005. I don't care what anyone says, if I don't see the ball come out of the machine I say this can be fixed. It really should be televised.

 

[Rebel_1812]

What does anyone think of this..

One part at the very end of the proposal would bring a change to the NHL Draft Lottery as we know it:

Implementation of a weighted Draft Lottery in which all non-Playoff teams compete for opportunity to choose first overall in the annual Draft....

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/nhl-proposes-draft-lottery-top-pick-open-non-190653533--nhl.html

Part of me says this is Bettmans idea. Too easy for the NHL to "fix" it so they can choose which team gets the #1 like in 2005. I don't care what anyone says, if I don't see the ball come out of the machine I say this can be fixed. It really should be televised.

yeah or like that time in the NBA New York drafted Ewing.  That pitts pick for crosby always stuck me as suspicious.  It was just what bettman would want.  The team at the time was in danger of moving and didn't have a chance of getting a new stadium.    They get crosby and that all changes.

 

[Kin]

Part of me says this is Bettmans idea. Too easy for the NHL to "fix" it so they can choose which team gets the #1 like in 2005. I don't care what anyone says, if I don't see the ball come out of the machine I say this can be fixed. It really should be televised.

yeah or like that time in the NBA New York drafted Ewing.  That pitts pick for crosby always stuck me as suspicious.  It was just what bettman would want.  The team at the time was in danger of moving and didn't have a chance of getting a new stadium.    They get crosby and that all changes.

Except the Ewing draft lottery was televised. The Knicks were randomly drawn. But then people said ridiculous things like their envelope was bent or frozen. If you're inclined to believe that nonsense then you'll always be able to find a way things might be rigged. Ping pong balls could be sized or weighted differently! There might be magnets! Aliens may be telling the CIA to tell Bettman to favour the Blue Jackets!

 

[bustaheims]

Except the Ewing draft lottery was televised. The Knicks were randomly drawn. But then people said ridiculous things like their envelope was bent or frozen. If you're inclined to believe that nonsense then you'll always be able to find a way things might be rigged. Ping pong balls could be sized or weighted differently! There might be magnets! Aliens may be telling the CIA to tell Bettman to favour the Blue Jackets!

Not to mention the numerous lawsuits that could have been brought if any of these supposedly rigged lotteries actually were rigged. I mean, I guess it's nice to have a conspiracy theory and all, but, do people actually believe that every other owner in the league would have been okay with fixing the draft lottery so they didn't get Crosby or Ewing?

 

[Rebel_1812]

Except the Ewing draft lottery was televised. The Knicks were randomly drawn. But then people said ridiculous things like their envelope was bent or frozen. If you're inclined to believe that nonsense then you'll always be able to find a way things might be rigged. Ping pong balls could be sized or weighted differently! There might be magnets! Aliens may be telling the CIA to tell Bettman to favour the Blue Jackets!

Not to mention the numerous lawsuits that could have been brought if any of these supposedly rigged lotteries actually were rigged. I mean, I guess it's nice to have a conspiracy theory and all, but, do people actually believe that every other owner in the league would have been okay with fixing the draft lottery so they didn't get Crosby or Ewing?

Other then the fact games have been fixed and the NFL has been sued for game fixing.
http://www.examiner.com/article/supreme-court-allows-nfl-patriots-to-legally-cheat-by-dismissing-spygate-suit

The court dismissed the case because it ruled sports leagues only have an obligation to put on an entertainment product.

If you still doubt how rigged the sports leagues are try reading "THE FIX IS IN: The Showbiz Manipulations of the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL and NASCAR"
http://www.thefixisin.net/

or try researching the numerous sports scandals with game fixing and price shaving and etc.

If you think rigging a sports league is a conspiracy theory akin to aliens; I'm sure you think steroids in sports is also a conspiracy.  Moreover, you must also think lance armstrong is innocent.

 

[bustaheims]

Other then the fact games have been fixed and the NFL has been sued for game fixing.
http://www.examiner.com/article/supreme-court-allows-nfl-patriots-to-legally-cheat-by-dismissing-spygate-suit

The court dismissed the case because it ruled sports leagues only have an obligation to put on an entertainment product.

Fans trying to sure the league/team is a vastly different thing from teams suing their own league. The courts are right - the league is only responsible to provide an entertainment product to the fans. When it comes to how they deal with their member clubs, they're bound by a myriad of legal documents.

If you still doubt how rigged the sports leagues are try reading "THE FIX IS IN: The Showbiz Manipulations of the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL and NASCAR"
http://www.thefixisin.net/

or try researching the numerous sports scandals with game fixing and price shaving and etc.

So, one guy's conspiracy website is supposed to be proof of something? Loo, I'm not saying there aren't corrupt people involved in sports and that everything is above board, but, just because things sometimes work out favourably doesn't mean it was fixed.

If you think rigging a sports league is a conspiracy theory akin to aliens; I'm sure you think steroids in sports is also a conspiracy.  Moreover, you must also think lance armstrong is innocent.

Wow. The rhetoric is strong with this one. Who said anything about aliens or steroids or Lance Armstrong. With steroids, there's proof it happened. With Lance Armstrong, there's proof he used illegal substances (though, to be fair, the organization responsible for his tests doesn't exactly have a spotless record themselves). When it comes to fixing the draft lottery, there are only conspiracy theories.

 

[oldman]

All I'm saying is it is too easy to fix. Now Bettman can almost pick and choose which non playoff team gets the number 1 draft pick. Why not televise it? It would be far more exciting to watch the ball drop than Bill Daly open up a huge envelope. It would also kill any conspiracy theories.