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2012 CBA Negotiations Thread

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oldman said:
All I'm saying is it is too easy to fix. Now Bettman can almost pick and choose which non playoff team gets the number 1 draft pick. Why not televise it? It would be far more exciting to watch the ball drop than Bill Daly open up a huge envelope. It would also kill any conspiracy theories.
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Well, the reality is, the legal issues actually make is awfully risky for Bettman to fix - he'd lose his job if he were caught and be subject to dozens of lawsuits. On top of that, the draft lottery is actually conducted by an impartial, independent accounting firm, and is a pretty boring process as it is currently structured. They don't choose a ball out of a barrel or anything like that. They assign a series of 4 digit numbers to each team in the lottery and use a random number generator to choose the winner.
 
oldman said:
All I'm saying is it is too easy to fix. Now Bettman can almost pick and choose which non playoff team gets the number 1 draft pick. Why not televise it? It would be far more exciting to watch the ball drop than Bill Daly open up a huge envelope. It would also kill any conspiracy theories.
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Except, as I said, it doesn't. The NBA televised their lottery and people still think it was rigged. As long as people are going to start with the conclusion they want, in this case that a draft lottery was fixed, and work backwards there are always ways to do it.
 
Real_ESPNLeBrun: Fehr; "They did make a comprehensive response to what we gave them yesterday."

Real_ESPNLeBrun: Bettman just met media. Measured in his comments. Asked if there's traction: "It's a process that's ongoing and I'm thankful for that."

Real_ESPNLeBrun: Bettman said they responded the NHLPA's way on some things they wanted in counter but also had to say no on other items the union wanted.
 
bustaheims said:
Real_ESPNLeBrun: Fehr; "They did make a comprehensive response to what we gave them yesterday."

Real_ESPNLeBrun: Bettman just met media. Measured in his comments. Asked if there's traction: "It's a process that's ongoing and I'm thankful for that."

Real_ESPNLeBrun: Bettman said they responded the NHLPA's way on some things they wanted in counter but also had to say no on other items the union wanted.
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If they can't get a deal done while they're this close we might as well write off the bloody sport.
 
I was really hoping for a full year off from the Leafs. Get a top 5 pick without having to miss the playoffs this season, it all sounded good to me. *sigh*
 
Today's a big day, one way or the other. If the Union actually goes through with the disclaimer of interest it'll probably be a bad sign.
 
Nik V. Debs said:
Today's a big day, one way or the other. If the Union actually goes through with the disclaimer of interest it'll probably be a bad sign.
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Your right ...all though they could use it as a ploy and still negotiate.
 
jdh1 said:
Your right ...all though they could use it as a ploy and still negotiate.
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No. If they file, they're not legally allowed to negotiate as a union. They'd have to begin the process of re-certification to continue negotiations.
 
bustaheims said:
jdh1 said:
Your right ...all though they could use it as a ploy and still negotiate.
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No. If they file, they're not legally allowed to negotiate as a union. They'd have to begin the process of re-certification to continue negotiations.
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That's the letter of it but the reality is shadier. The Fehr's could still be retained as counsel and still talk on behalf of the union on certain matters. They'd have to re-certify to sign anything probably but negotiations could still probably take place.
 
Nik V. Debs said:
bustaheims said:
jdh1 said:
Your right ...all though they could use it as a ploy and still negotiate.
Click to expand...

No. If they file, they're not legally allowed to negotiate as a union. They'd have to begin the process of re-certification to continue negotiations.
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That's the letter of it but the reality is shadier. The Fehr's could still be retained as counsel and still talk on behalf of the union on certain matters. They'd have to re-certify to sign anything probably but negotiations could still probably take place.
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Seems overly convoluted and messy. I think it could risk the season and Im not sure even the NHLPA truly want that over what could be a few percentages.
 
Nik V. Debs said:
That's the letter of it but the reality is shadier. The Fehr's could still be retained as counsel and still talk on behalf of the union on certain matters. They'd have to re-certify to sign anything probably but negotiations could still probably take place.
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I suppose, but that wouldn't really make it all that helpful as a ploy. It would, in fact, likely lend credence to the league's assertion that the DOI was only being used as a negotiating tactic. It just seems to me that if they feel they're close and they intend to get a deal done, they're better off not filing.
 
bustaheims said:
I suppose, but that wouldn't really make it all that helpful as a ploy. It would, in fact, likely lend credence to the league's assertion that the DOI was only being used as a negotiating tactic. It just seems to me that if they feel they're close and they intend to get a deal done, they're better off not filing.
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Well, it depends on the extent to which it is a ploy and, again, on the extent to which Bettman can cancel a season. If the PA's fallback position is to go ahead with anti-trust lawsuits and Bettman has been told, as reported, that the league isn't willing to cancel a season/risk those lawsuits then filing the disclaimer follows plan B but retaining the ability to negotiate over the next week still gives them the option to follow through on plan A up to the very last minute.

 
Bender said:
If they can't get a deal done while they're this close we might as well write off the bloody sport.
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The league, yes, the sport? No.  The sport is bigger than the NHL as a whole.  If things went completely to assplode city, maybe we would see a new league form with about 15-20 teams incuding the original six plus the teams who make money or people give a flying fadoo about, leaving the crap teams in the south to rot away.. all contracts are voided and everyone starts from scratch.  But who knows... I have been doing a LOT of drinking the past 2 weeks.

Sounds like this thing gets done in the next week or two.. .although Fehr seems to be the one holding the hand grenade with the pin pulled and could toss it on the table at any moment like he did a month ago... if he does that then we're probably done and maybe my hangover-fueled scenario isn't complete lunacy.
 
Corn Flake said:
Bender said:
If they can't get a deal done while they're this close we might as well write off the bloody sport.
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The league, yes, the sport? No.  The sport is bigger than the NHL as a whole.  If things went completely to assplode city, maybe we would see a new league form with about 15-20 teams incuding the original six plus the teams who make money or people give a flying fadoo about, leaving the crap teams in the south to rot away.. all contracts are voided and everyone starts from scratch.  But who knows... I have been doing a LOT of drinking the past 2 weeks.

Sounds like this thing gets done in the next week or two.. .although Fehr seems to be the one holding the hand grenade with the pin pulled and could toss it on the table at any moment like he did a month ago... if he does that then we're probably done and maybe my hangover-fueled scenario isn't complete lunacy.
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Sorry, bad choice of words. The league is what I meant.

It would be interesting to see your scenario play out but man a new league would wither without the relationships the NHL has fostered over the years, even if they are at their breaking point right now. I wonder how another league could possibly be profitable. Could go the route of WHA.
 
Bender said:
Sorry, bad choice of words. The league is what I meant.

It would be interesting to see your scenario play out but man a new league would wither without the relationships the NHL has fostered over the years, even if they are at their breaking point right now. I wonder how another league could possibly be profitable. Could go the route of WHA.
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I think that overestimates peoples attachment to the brand that is the NHL. My only real brand loyalty here is to the Leafs. I think what CF is talking about is teams like the Leafs and the other profitable franchises forming a brand new league as opposed to something starting from scratch like the WHA and on that basis...as long as the quality of hockey is the same I'd actually prefer a newer league that has less central authority.
 
Zee said:
I was really hoping for a full year off from the Leafs. Get a top 5 pick without having to miss the playoffs this season, it all sounded good to me. *sigh*
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They could conceivably miss the season and get a terrible draft pick, too.
 
Okay i've somewhat been out of the loop on this for a bit but reading into some of the news today...

let me get this straight - one of the core issues here is that the NHLPA wants a sponsored pension plan? Did I catch that correctly ?
 
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