2016-17 Centennial Leafs General Team Discussion

[sneakyray]

HAHA..."other than goals"

 

[Redleaf]

Positive Schmositive

Yeah. Win Schmin
Some people are just happier within themselves when things are going badly. Some psychological reflection on their own lives or some Mumbo jumbo like that. Plus the fact this club has been crap for so long, its easier and more comfortable to just believe that will continue than to put your hopes out on the line that it could change so quickly for the better.

Well, I think we're in for a real sociological experiment with Leaf fans over the next few years as our forever crappy team begins to climb the ranks of the NHL and back to respectability and beyond! How's that for a positive Monday morning message! 

 

[Nik]

Hard to imagine the Library has checked out both of its copies of Amateur Psychology for Dummies.

 

[Redleaf]

Hard to imagine the Library has checked out both of its copies of Amateur Psychology for Dummies.

Lol. I've got both copies. Chapter 1: Whoever smelt it...dealt it.

It's that good.

 

[TBLeafer]

Okay here's something even those that hope for another failed season and a high draft pick will understand.

"And you call yourself a fan?! "

 

[Bullfrog]

Okay here's something even those that hope for another failed season and a high draft pick will understand.

"And you call yourself a fan?! "

I'll admit, I don't understand. Is this a question or a statement?

 

[Nik]

Yeah, and why is it in quotation marks? Is it something someone else said? To who?

 

[TBLeafer]

Okay here's something even those that hope for another failed season and a high draft pick will understand.

"And you call yourself a fan?! "

I'll admit, I don't understand. Is this a question or a statement?

It's partially in jest but It's mostly a legit question.

There's different ways to be a fan and most fall under multiple categories.

Pom pom waivers.

Analytical.

Critical fans, etc.

But then there's the cynical fans. That's the group I speak out against. Those that inject nothing but negative energy into the team they supposedly cheer for.

I just feel that as long as this team's rebuild is going in the direction we are all witnessing, it would good for all Leafs fans to finally do away with the cynicism.

 

[Nik]

For those of you playing at home there's a fun bit of irony happening here. Cynicism, of course, is a separate thing from pessimism. It is not a belief that bad things will happen. Cynicism, on the other hand, is a rejection of altruism as a motivating factor in people's decisions. It is questioning whether or not people do things for "the right reasons".

Now, let's get back to TBLeafer questioning if other Leafs fans are really Cynics and not sufficiently of pure intent.

 

[Kaberle15]

I will add my 2 cents.

I would love another top 5 pick this season, preferable a D. HOWEVER I will not cheer for a loss (like last season), this team is so much more enjoyable to watch that IF they somehow manage to squeeze in the Playoffs I would love it even more.

So, I'm on the fence here. Either outcome will be good.

 

[TBLeafer]

Nik, here an easy yes or no question for you.

Do you distrust that the Leafs finishing this season as a bubble/playoff team will help their rebuild process?

 

[Nik]

It's not actually an easy yes or no question. "Distrust" would indicate I think the subsequent statement is, itself, being dishonest. But statements can't be honest or dishonest, just true or false.

My guess is you meant to ask whether or not I agree with the statement and you know the answer to that being as I said as much on the last page.

 

[Bullfrog]

I will add my 2 cents.

I would love another top 5 pick this season, preferable a D. HOWEVER I will not cheer for a loss (like last season), this team is so much more enjoyable to watch that IF they somehow manage to squeeze in the Playoffs I would love it even more.

So, I'm on the fence here. Either outcome will be good.

I'm somewhat in the same place. I'd like for them to finish in the bottom five in order to get another high pick, but I'm not actively cheering for it. If they pull off a miracle and make the playoffs, I'll just simply enjoy the ride. I'm just enjoying watching the team play and am more-or-less ambivalent to their position in the standings.

 

[TBLeafer]

It's not actually an easy yes or no question. "Distrust" would indicate I think the subsequent statement is, itself, being dishonest. But statements can't be honest or dishonest, just true or false.

My guess is you meant to ask whether or not I agree with the statement and you know the answer to that being as I said as much on the last page.

Nice duck.  So in essence you're saying disagreeing and distrusting are not one and the same for the most part?

Usually people don't trust decisions they disagree with until they are proven wrong.  Once they are proven wrong and admit it, the distrust goes away.

They also start to agree more with that person usually, because they have started to earn their trust. 

 

[Nik]

To be clear, I don't think the topic here is so much how we're cheering for the Leafs season to end as it is:

A) Can we separate what we want to see happen from what we think will happen(I say we can!).

B) If the answer to A) is no, how much should you whine about other people thinking differently than you do on the subject(I say not much!).

C) If the answer to A) is yes, is "What we think" a good topic for discussion even if it leads us into arriving at the likelihood the Leafs are playing above their heads(I say sure!)

Personally, I want the Leafs to win the Stanley Cup this year. If not this year than soon! I'm cheering for what I think is series of outcomes I think will make that most likely to happen!

 

[Nik]

Nice duck.  So in essence you're saying disagreeing and distrusting are not one and the same for the most part?

Yes. Saying someone is wrong is not the same as saying they're lying. That really is just the basics of the language.

And like I said, I answered the question you were trying to ask last page.

 

[Bill_Berg]

I will add my 2 cents.

I would love another top 5 pick this season, preferable a D. HOWEVER I will not cheer for a loss (like last season), this team is so much more enjoyable to watch that IF they somehow manage to squeeze in the Playoffs I would love it even more.

So, I'm on the fence here. Either outcome will be good.

I'm somewhat in the same place. I'd like for them to finish in the bottom five in order to get another high pick, but I'm not actively cheering for it. If they pull off a miracle and make the playoffs, I'll just simply enjoy the ride. I'm just enjoying watching the team play and am more-or-less ambivalent to their position in the standings.

It's a nice place to be this season. Lots of potential outcomes that can be considered good for the team and/or fun for the fans. Last year was great, but could have been horrible, this year there aren't many outcomes that I would consider horrible. Some are not ideal, but even those are not going to cause me any grief.

 

[TBLeafer]

Nice duck.  So in essence you're saying disagreeing and distrusting are not one and the same for the most part?

Yes. Saying someone is wrong is not the same as saying they're lying. That really is just the basics of the language.

And like I said, I answered the question you were trying to ask last page.

Someone doesn't have to be lying for you to distrust them.

We will leave this circular discussion now, at that. No need for another battle in semantics.

I personally think its better to start looking at improving the current team, over the future team.

And you don't need to empty the cupboard to do it.

Rielly-Zaitsev look like a highly capable top pairing.

I don't think it would be that hard to upgrade Marincin or Polak without having to rely on drafting Lil.

The Marlies are the youngest team in the AHL and they are dominating, even after having moved up big guns in Nylander, Brown, Hyman and Carrick to the NHL full time roster.

Andersen is coming along nicely now as Leafs starter.  Early jitters seem to have been worked out. Look at Bibeau and Woll's numbers, too.

The Leafs have stopped blowing leads and are playing over .500 hockey now.

Look at what our top prospects not in the AHL are doing.

We already have internal solutions to the roster, you don't seem to be putting stock in and we STILL have one of the highest ranked prospect pools even after promoting Matthews, Marner, Brown, etc.

We are set up for the future well already, without the need to add a Lilgegren or Patrick.  There is no need at all for them.  There is a need to upgrade our NHL team perhaps, with a more capable NHL 3-4 D and that is all right now.

 

[Nik]

I personally think its better to start looking at improving the current team, over the future team.

Great, good for you. Truth is, I don't really care what you think or how you see the team going forward. In your time here you haven't really convinced me that you are particularly open to ideas that would challenge the conclusions you've arrived at, nor have you done much to convince me the conclusions you arrive at are done so dispassionately and based on evidence.

Again, this discussion is not about the different ways we see the team and what's best for them going forward. It's about your seeming frustration with the fact that there are people, like me, who disagree with you and who are going to use this board to talk about their points of view even if it "injects negativity" or prevents fans from "banding together" or whatever nonsense magical thinking you're promoting re: an actual impact of fandom on the fortunes of the team.

 

[Highlander]

Magical thinking has always worked for me.