2016-2017 NHL Thread
- Thread starter Kin
- Start date
herman said:
I'm actually pretty curious to see if Marner and Nylander crack the list. I mean, I'd put them there sure, but would an unbiased group of NHL observers? I dunno. I feel like their lack of experience might hold them off the list for a year. Matthews will be there for sure of course.
Nik the Trik said:
To be honest the only reason I think that they might be there is because they weren't listed in the honourable mentions section while forwards like Huberdeau, Rakell, and Guentzel were.
bustaheims
Active member
Nik the Trik said:
Maybe not significantly, but they're certainly comparable. As rookies, they put up similar numbers to what he did as a 4th year player. That's probably enough to get them ranked slightly higher than him.
Kin
New member
bustaheims said:
Maybe, but Nylander and Marner were 20 and 19 year old rookies while Monahan, as a 19 year old, had the best year of any of them to date.
He hasn't progressed much from that stats wise so, again, if this is about potential sure but it would seem weird to count his scoring 22 goals as an 18 year old rookie as a negative.
Kin
New member
For the sake of argument, I suppose we'd need to see if we could credibly come up with a list without them. So excluding the five guys already mentioned and the HMs, here's a go at it in no particular order:
1. McDavid
2. Matthews
3. Laine
4. Kucherov
5. Scheifele
6. Draisaitl
7. Pastrnak
8. Werenski
9. Matt Murray
10. Ekblad
11. Ehlers
12. Arvidsson
13. Gaudreau
14. Barkov
15. Mackinnon
16. Forsberg
17. Eichel
18. Seth Jones
19. Wennberg
20. Drouin
So, in conclusion, I can't really come up with a list of 20 guys who should be there above Marner and Nylander although, to be fair, I only really started reaching around #19 or so. Everyone else, from a "who's better right now" sense, is at least a fair discussion.
1. McDavid
2. Matthews
3. Laine
4. Kucherov
5. Scheifele
6. Draisaitl
7. Pastrnak
8. Werenski
9. Matt Murray
10. Ekblad
11. Ehlers
12. Arvidsson
13. Gaudreau
14. Barkov
15. Mackinnon
16. Forsberg
17. Eichel
18. Seth Jones
19. Wennberg
20. Drouin
So, in conclusion, I can't really come up with a list of 20 guys who should be there above Marner and Nylander although, to be fair, I only really started reaching around #19 or so. Everyone else, from a "who's better right now" sense, is at least a fair discussion.
Nik the Trik said:
Drouin was ranked already (24th). I might question Ehlers' and Wennberg's place on the list. Maybe even Arvidsson. Not that contracts are the only way to look at things and I know Nashville of course used some wizardy to get his number down, but I think we can all agree that Nylander and Marner will be coming in at a much higher cap hit than the one he just signed. So that means there's still up to 4 spots where Mitch or Willie could possibly appear.
But yeah I think seeing all those names out there like that makes it clear if they're on the list they'll be coming up sooner rather than later. It's a tough group to crack.
edit: whoops, Arvidsson was actually listed as a HM so he's out for sure. Meaning there's at least two spots side open from your list. Seems very possible those are the openings our guys needed.
Kin
New member
Ah, good catches. Full disclosure, I did not work very hard on that list. I mainly just looked at a list of point leaders.
So, for instance, if you bump Drouin and Arvidsson you could replace them with Parayko and Gostisbehere. Either way, I'd bet they're(meaning Marner and Nylander) on there somewhere.
So, for instance, if you bump Drouin and Arvidsson you could replace them with Parayko and Gostisbehere. Either way, I'd bet they're(meaning Marner and Nylander) on there somewhere.
Nik the Trik said:
I was looking at the list of U25 scorers from last season and those two names are the only ones that jumped out on me too. But I would have put Hamilton and Klingberg on the list over those two pretty easily and they didn't make the cut. So yeah, I'm actually a lot more comfortable in thinking Nylander and Marner will be there.
The real crime here is that Dougie Hamilton didn't make this. I would have put him on over Drouin and Galchenyuk, and your two hypothetical in Ehlers and Wennberg. I'd maybe even put Hamilton in over Seth Jones who will surely make the list. I really don't get his exclusion.
Damnit, we forgot about Larkin. Time to start over.
Parayko comes in at #20 in that T25U25 list: https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2017/7/31/16050400/nhl-top-25-under-25-player-rankings-colton-parayko-st-louis-blues
Somewhat surprising to me, because like I said I think I would have put Hamilton in over him pretty easily and he didn't make the cut. I probably would have fit both of them in on my list.
edit: I'd even argue that Lindholm (ranked 21st) should have gone before Parayko.
Somewhat surprising to me, because like I said I think I would have put Hamilton in over him pretty easily and he didn't make the cut. I probably would have fit both of them in on my list.
edit: I'd even argue that Lindholm (ranked 21st) should have gone before Parayko.
Ehlers goes 19th: https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2017/8/1/16068712/nhl-top-25-under-25-rankings-2017-nikolaj-ehlers-winnipeg-jets
Ehlers is the same age as Nylander. He scored 64 points this season (his sophomore year) while Nylander and Marner both scored 61. Marner barely edged him out in points per game. If he's there then I really think both of them should be too, although we're running out of spots.
Ehlers is the same age as Nylander. He scored 64 points this season (his sophomore year) while Nylander and Marner both scored 61. Marner barely edged him out in points per game. If he's there then I really think both of them should be too, although we're running out of spots.
Coco-puffs
New member
CarltonTheBear said:
It will be interesting if Marner and Nylander aren't on the list, but Ehlers is. Look at who each of them played with and you begin to wonder who got carried a little more. Nylander had half of his time with Matthews/Hyman and the rest of his time with Kadri/Komarov. While their centermen might be close in comparison, Ehlers spent the majority of his time with wingers Laine and Wheeler. That's a huge step up from Hyman and Komarov! As for Marner, JvR is no slouch and Bozak is fine as a sheltered scoring center but they don't compare to the guys Ehlers was playing with the majority of the time. Anyways, all that to say all three probably deserve to be more on the honorable mentions list or 20-25 range than in the Top 20 at this point.
Coco-puffs
New member
https://www.fearthefin.com/2017/8/2/16082098/nhls-best-players-under-age-25-how-did-the-fear-the-fin-writing-staff-vote
The ballot from the Sharks SB Nation afiliate:
Connor McDavid (C, Edmonton Oilers)
Auston Matthews (C, Toronto Maple Leafs)
Nikita Kucherov (RW, Tampa Bay Lightning)
Matt Murray (G, Pittsburgh Penguins)
Mark Scheifele (C, Winnipeg Jets)
Patrik Laine (RW, Winnipeg Jets)
David Pastrnak (RW, Boston Bruins)
Johnny Gaudreau (LW, Calgary Flames)
Jack Eichel (C, Buffalo Sabres)
Leon Draisaitl (C, Edmonton Oilers)
Aleksander Barkov (C, Florida Panthers)
Mitch Marner (RW, Toronto Maple Leafs)
William Nylander (RW, Toronto Maple Leafs)
Filip Forsberg (LW, Nashville Predators)
Zach Werenski (D, Columbus Blue Jackets)
Jacob Trouba (D, Winnipeg Jets)
Hampus Lindholm (D, Anaheim Ducks)
Jonathan Drouin (LW, Montreal Canadiens)
Nikolaj Ehlers (LW, Winnipeg Jets)
Jonathan Huberdeau (LW, Florida Panthers)
Alex Galchenyuk (C, Montreal Canadiens)
Seth Jones (D, Columbus Blue Jackets)
Aaron Ekblad (D, Florida Panthers)
Brandon Saad (LW, Chicago Blackhawks)
Sean Monahan (C, Calgary Flames)
They have Nylander and Marner back to back in the Top 15. Twitter-sphere is going to have a fit (most of who I follow on the analytics side didn't think those two should be in the Top 25) if they end up that high in the overall list.
The ballot from the Sharks SB Nation afiliate:
Connor McDavid (C, Edmonton Oilers)
Auston Matthews (C, Toronto Maple Leafs)
Nikita Kucherov (RW, Tampa Bay Lightning)
Matt Murray (G, Pittsburgh Penguins)
Mark Scheifele (C, Winnipeg Jets)
Patrik Laine (RW, Winnipeg Jets)
David Pastrnak (RW, Boston Bruins)
Johnny Gaudreau (LW, Calgary Flames)
Jack Eichel (C, Buffalo Sabres)
Leon Draisaitl (C, Edmonton Oilers)
Aleksander Barkov (C, Florida Panthers)
Mitch Marner (RW, Toronto Maple Leafs)
William Nylander (RW, Toronto Maple Leafs)
Filip Forsberg (LW, Nashville Predators)
Zach Werenski (D, Columbus Blue Jackets)
Jacob Trouba (D, Winnipeg Jets)
Hampus Lindholm (D, Anaheim Ducks)
Jonathan Drouin (LW, Montreal Canadiens)
Nikolaj Ehlers (LW, Winnipeg Jets)
Jonathan Huberdeau (LW, Florida Panthers)
Alex Galchenyuk (C, Montreal Canadiens)
Seth Jones (D, Columbus Blue Jackets)
Aaron Ekblad (D, Florida Panthers)
Brandon Saad (LW, Chicago Blackhawks)
Sean Monahan (C, Calgary Flames)
They have Nylander and Marner back to back in the Top 15. Twitter-sphere is going to have a fit (most of who I follow on the analytics side didn't think those two should be in the Top 25) if they end up that high in the overall list.