2016-2017 NHL Thread

[Bender]

r/hockey is giving me the Kucherov vs Matthews fight I was hoping to stir up.

Ranking last season's performance: Kucherov > Matthews
Ranking potential/ceiling: Matthews > Kucherov

I don't know if it's even fair to rank Kucherov that close to Matthews. I mean he had one really blip like year. I really don't think he repeats last year's numbers ever again. Kucherov didn't play his 19y.o. season in the NHL either.

I guess it doesn't really matter but I'm just skeptical of ranking him over a guy like Pastrnak who's shown a lot more a lot earlier in his career.

 

[herman]

I don't know if it's even fair to rank Kucherov that close to Matthews. I mean he had one really blip like year. I really don't think he repeats last year's numbers ever again. Kucherov didn't play his 19y.o. season in the NHL either.

I guess it doesn't really matter but I'm just skeptical of ranking him over a guy like Pastrnak who's shown a lot more a lot earlier in his career.

Yeah, Kucherov's older and plays on a good (but super injured) team, but he put up a 94-pt pace. While a lot of it was PP prowess, it's still not common.

Player	GP	Pts	Pro-rated
McDavid	82	100	100.0
Crosby	75	89	97.3
Kucherov	74	85	94.2
Kane	82	89	89.0
Marchand	80	85	87.1
Backstrom	82	86	86.0

 

[cabber24]

Didn't the NHLput penalties on these type of contracts in last CBA for contracts already signed?  Or am I remembering that incorrectly? 

It was within the rules at the time but I would still like the NHL attempt to fine the team/player for the contract.

You want the NHL to retroactively fine teams for doing things that were legal at the time?

As Bullfrog pointed out, apparently they did. I was not aware of the "Cap Recapture Penalty". Which was a retroactive punishment for cap circumventing contracts already in place.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/3ctmu2/the_cap_recapture_penalty_what_it_is_and_why_it/

But it sounds like it won't hurt them anyway since teams needing to get to the cap floor will trade for a player that will never play that is owed next to nothing in real $s but uses a lot of cap space. ie. Datsyuk

 

[Coco-puffs]

Didn't the NHLput penalties on these type of contracts in last CBA for contracts already signed?  Or am I remembering that incorrectly? 

It was within the rules at the time but I would still like the NHL attempt to fine the team/player for the contract.

You want the NHL to retroactively fine teams for doing things that were legal at the time?

As Bullfrog pointed out, apparently they did. I was not aware of the "Cap Recapture Penalty". Which was a retroactive punishment for cap circumventing contracts already in place.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/3ctmu2/the_cap_recapture_penalty_what_it_is_and_why_it/

But it sounds like it won't hurt them anyway since teams needing to get to the cap floor will trade for a player that will never play that is owed next to nothing in real $s but uses a lot of cap space. ie. Datsyuk

Actually, it will hurt them.  The CRP affects the team who benefited from the cap circumvention.  Check out this for Luongo:

https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/440982011251945472

Vancouver will get hit with the majority of the CRP if Luongo retires before his contract is up even though he's in Florida.  That is because they benefited the most by signing him to the front-loaded cap circumventing contract.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If Zetterberg retires in the summer of 2019 when his contract only has the 2 years left at $1mil per then the Wings would get hit with a $5,083,335 cap hit for each of those two years. Per: https://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2016/4/25/11487900/red-wings-cap-recapture-penalties-zetterberg-kronwall-and-franzens

 

[CarltonTheBear]

There would have to be a medical professional willing to commit fraud for that to work. Hossa's condition sounds fairly serious.

Not necessarily. I'd bet just about any hockey player after a long career has enough chronic issues that a medical professional could say they shouldn't be playing for one reason or another.

Right. He'd be 38 at that point. All he'd have to do is say his back hurts.

 

[cabber24]

Didn't the NHLput penalties on these type of contracts in last CBA for contracts already signed?  Or am I remembering that incorrectly? 

It was within the rules at the time but I would still like the NHL attempt to fine the team/player for the contract.

You want the NHL to retroactively fine teams for doing things that were legal at the time?

As Bullfrog pointed out, apparently they did. I was not aware of the "Cap Recapture Penalty". Which was a retroactive punishment for cap circumventing contracts already in place.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/3ctmu2/the_cap_recapture_penalty_what_it_is_and_why_it/

But it sounds like it won't hurt them anyway since teams needing to get to the cap floor will trade for a player that will never play that is owed next to nothing in real $s but uses a lot of cap space. ie. Datsyuk

Actually, it will hurt them.  The CRP affects the team who benefited from the cap circumvention.  Check out this for Luongo:

https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/440982011251945472

Vancouver will get hit with the majority of the CRP if Luongo retires before his contract is up even though he's in Florida.  That is because they benefited the most by signing him to the front-loaded cap circumventing contract.

I think I understand it now, the cap circumvention amount ($8,520,373) VAN incurred during the time they had Luongo will eventually hit their cap if he retires early distributed evenly over the number of years left in his contract.

 

[cabber24]

There would have to be a medical professional willing to commit fraud for that to work. Hossa's condition sounds fairly serious.

Not necessarily. I'd bet just about any hockey player after a long career has enough chronic issues that a medical professional could say they shouldn't be playing for one reason or another.

Right. He'd be 38 at that point. All he'd have to do is say his back hurts.

I totally agree... as soon as I heard the Hossa thing I immediately called BS. Hossa got paid 7.9M for 7 years, 4M for 1 year and for the 4 remaining years he is owed 1M per year. He is unfit to play as soon as his salary changes to 1M. He collected 59.3M of a 63.3M contract in just 8 years of 12 year contract. CHI total cap circumvention during the 8 years equates to $14,962,500. If he retired instead of being "unfit to play" CHI would have a $3,740,625 hit against their cap for the next 4 years.

 

[herman]

1. Connor McDavid
https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2017/8/25/16198130/nhl-top-25-under-25-rankings-2017-connor-mcdavid-edmonton-oilers

Highest rank: No. 1
Lowest rank: No. 1

How should I feel about this?

 

[Coco-puffs]

1. Connor McDavid
https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2017/8/25/16198130/nhl-top-25-under-25-rankings-2017-connor-mcdavid-edmonton-oilers

Highest rank: No. 1
Lowest rank: No. 1

How should I feel about this?

Relieved there is SOME (limited) sanity amongst the people making their lists.

 

[Kin]

As Bullfrog pointed out, apparently they did. I was not aware of the "Cap Recapture Penalty".

No, they're not fines. They're cap consequences that can be relatively easily avoided.

Being in favour of CRP isn't the same as wanting the NHL to fine teams for doing things that they were allowed to do. The first seems like a valid conversation considering that things like the CRPs were collectively bargained and therefore agreed to by the teams it would theoretically affect. There's no real argument for letting the NHL fine people for not breaking the rules.

 

[Kin]

1. Connor McDavid
https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2017/8/25/16198130/nhl-top-25-under-25-rankings-2017-connor-mcdavid-edmonton-oilers

Highest rank: No. 1
Lowest rank: No. 1

How should I feel about this?

I guess it says something about how good McDavid is that in a list with some pretty wacky opinions nobody floated a "hey maybe Matthews has a higher ceiling because of his size/goal scoring ability" or even "goalies are the most valuable position" contrarian take.

 

[rdowdall]

Why would I ever get off?

Must.......not......answer........question!!!!!!

 

[herman]

Why would I ever get off?

Must.......not......answer........question!!!!!!

I was wondering when someone would jump on this.

 

[rdowdall]

Why would I ever get off?

Must.......not......answer........question!!!!!!

I was wondering when someone would jump on this.

Now you're doing it on purpose.

 

[herman]

Why would I ever get off?

Must.......not......answer........question!!!!!!

I was wondering when someone would jump on this.

Now you're doing it on purpose.

I wanted to see how long you could keep this up.

 

[rdowdall]

If Zetterberg retires in the summer of 2019 when his contract only has the 2 years left at $1mil per then the Wings would get hit with a $5,083,335 cap hit for each of those two years. Per: https://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2016/4/25/11487900/red-wings-cap-recapture-penalties-zetterberg-kronwall-and-franzens

Wow.  Is Detroit ever a mess right now:

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/redwings

Sure they can place Franzen on IR, but when you are 3 million over the cap, and some are picking your team to be dead last, that's not a good spot to be in. 

 

[rdowdall]

Why would I ever get off?

Must.......not......answer........question!!!!!!

I was wondering when someone would jump on this.

Now you're doing it on purpose.

I wanted to see how long you could keep this up.

Well you might be disappointed. 

 

[herman]

Well you might be disappointed.

 

[herman]

If anyone cares,

Will Butcher has signed with NJD.
Alex Kerfoot has signed with COL.