2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion

[CarltonTheBear]

Can you imagine how much Kadri would feast on 3rd lines across the league? 
Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Tavares - Marner
Johnsson - Kadri - Kapanen
Who gives a shit - who gives a shit - Brown

I hate WIGWAL for bringing this up and making me think about this all day. Hate.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Also since we're spit-balling here if we sign Tavares or Backlund or some other centre this season and keep Nylander on the wing long-term, I'm dangling Brown for a defenceman this offseason. Nylander-Marner-Kapanen on the right side is damn good. We could flip Kappy over to the left side but he's probably more comfortable on the right. And Johnsson plus Grundstrom coming up gives us depth on the left anyway. Brown is definitely expendable if Nylander stays on the wing.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Can you imagine how much Kadri would feast on 3rd lines across the league? 
Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Tavares - Marner
Johnsson - Kadri - Kapanen
Who gives a shit - who gives a shit - Brown

I hate WIGWAL for bringing this up and making me think about this all day. Hate.

Welcome to my world.  ;D ;D ;D

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Welcome to my world.  ;D ;D ;D

Like I said, it actually has been in the back of my mind for months now, you just brought it front and centre.

 

[ZBBM]

Here's a good article that came out today on Morgan Rielly and how he's established himself as a true #1 defenceman this season:

So what is Morgan Rielly? Well, he?s a defenceman who:

Leads his team in Controlled Zone Exits
Is above league average at preventing Controlled Zone Entries
Outshoots the opposition when he?s on the ice
Is on pace for over 50 Points
Does all this while facing extremely difficult competition

There?s only one other defenceman in the NHL who meets these criteria. His name is Drew Doughty.

If Rielly can keep playing at the level he has this season, I don?t think the Leafs don?t need to go looking for a #1 defenceman ? they?ve found him.

https://mapleleafsnation.com/2018/02/14/morgan-riellys-evolution-into-a-1-defenceman/

You can go back and look at some of my posts from last season where I expressed doubt about whether Rielly could take another step forward in his play, but he's certainly proven me wrong this season. I think the team can still use a pretty big upgrade in the top-4 on the right side but I don't know if it really HAS to be a Doughty or Karlsson type player.

Rielly has played well this season but let's get serious: he is not now and likely never will be in the conversation for the Norris, so this comparison to Doughty is absurd.  Penguin model or no, spending money on Tavares is misplaced IMO.  Even if his equivalent is not available on D, use that money to get better on the backend.

(Mind you, I am aware that the fact we are even able to have a friendly debate about this is soooooo much of an upgrade over the types of conversations available to this board since the Sundin era ended.  It feels good.)

 

[Coco-puffs]

Here's a good article that came out today on Morgan Rielly and how he's established himself as a true #1 defenceman this season:

So what is Morgan Rielly? Well, he?s a defenceman who:

Leads his team in Controlled Zone Exits
Is above league average at preventing Controlled Zone Entries
Outshoots the opposition when he?s on the ice
Is on pace for over 50 Points
Does all this while facing extremely difficult competition

There?s only one other defenceman in the NHL who meets these criteria. His name is Drew Doughty.

If Rielly can keep playing at the level he has this season, I don?t think the Leafs don?t need to go looking for a #1 defenceman ? they?ve found him.

https://mapleleafsnation.com/2018/02/14/morgan-riellys-evolution-into-a-1-defenceman/

You can go back and look at some of my posts from last season where I expressed doubt about whether Rielly could take another step forward in his play, but he's certainly proven me wrong this season. I think the team can still use a pretty big upgrade in the top-4 on the right side but I don't know if it really HAS to be a Doughty or Karlsson type player.

I'd agree with you that it doesn't need to be a Doughty or Karlsson type player- but one of those would always be nice!  But we definitely need an improvement over Hainsey as the #2.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Can you imagine how much Kadri would feast on 3rd lines across the league? 
Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Tavares - Marner
Johnsson - Kadri - Kapanen
Who gives a shit - who gives a shit - Brown

I hate WIGWAL for bringing this up and making me think about this all day. Hate.

I'm sure it's crossed your mind as well but... PP1 becomes the London Knights trifecta with who gives a fuck at the net front and Rielly on the back end.  Tavares-Kadri-Marner-(Brown?)-Rielly.

 

[Zee]

Can you imagine how much Kadri would feast on 3rd lines across the league? 
Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Tavares - Marner
Johnsson - Kadri - Kapanen
Who gives a shit - who gives a shit - Brown

I hate WIGWAL for bringing this up and making me think about this all day. Hate.

I'm sure it's crossed your mind as well but... PP1 becomes the London Knights trifecta with who gives a Frig at the net front and Rielly on the back end.  Tavares-Kadri-Marner-(Brown?)-Rielly.

Who does Matthews have to pay to get on PP1?

 

[rdowdall]

Here's a good article that came out today on Morgan Rielly and how he's established himself as a true #1 defenceman this season:

So what is Morgan Rielly? Well, he?s a defenceman who:

Leads his team in Controlled Zone Exits
Is above league average at preventing Controlled Zone Entries
Outshoots the opposition when he?s on the ice
Is on pace for over 50 Points
Does all this while facing extremely difficult competition

There?s only one other defenceman in the NHL who meets these criteria. His name is Drew Doughty.

If Rielly can keep playing at the level he has this season, I don?t think the Leafs don?t need to go looking for a #1 defenceman ? they?ve found him.

https://mapleleafsnation.com/2018/02/14/morgan-riellys-evolution-into-a-1-defenceman/

You can go back and look at some of my posts from last season where I expressed doubt about whether Rielly could take another step forward in his play, but he's certainly proven me wrong this season. I think the team can still use a pretty big upgrade in the top-4 on the right side but I don't know if it really HAS to be a Doughty or Karlsson type player.

Umm.  That statement makes doesn't make no sense at all.

 

[sickbeast]

Here's a good article that came out today on Morgan Rielly and how he's established himself as a true #1 defenceman this season:

So what is Morgan Rielly? Well, he?s a defenceman who:

Leads his team in Controlled Zone Exits
Is above league average at preventing Controlled Zone Entries
Outshoots the opposition when he?s on the ice
Is on pace for over 50 Points
Does all this while facing extremely difficult competition

There?s only one other defenceman in the NHL who meets these criteria. His name is Drew Doughty.

If Rielly can keep playing at the level he has this season, I don?t think the Leafs don?t need to go looking for a #1 defenceman ? they?ve found him.

https://mapleleafsnation.com/2018/02/14/morgan-riellys-evolution-into-a-1-defenceman/

You can go back and look at some of my posts from last season where I expressed doubt about whether Rielly could take another step forward in his play, but he's certainly proven me wrong this season. I think the team can still use a pretty big upgrade in the top-4 on the right side but I don't know if it really HAS to be a Doughty or Karlsson type player.

Umm.  That statement makes doesn't make no sense at all.

I find your post insignificant, actually. 

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Don't look now, but they are only 3 back of Boston and 4 back of Tampa.

Both teams have games in hand on the Leafs, but that might not be the blessing we think as they go through some of the fixture congestion the Leafs had to endure earlier in the year.

 

[Zee]

Don't look now, but they are only 3 back of Boston and 4 back of Tampa.

Both teams have games in hand on the Leafs, but that might not be the blessing we think as they go through some of the fixture congestion the Leafs had to endure earlier in the year.

I'm not so fixated on catching either team, as long as the Leafs are playing their best hockey when the playoffs roll around then I'm happy.  Boston and Tampa having to play more games down the stretch will add to their fatigue, so could be a good thing as you mention.

 

[cabber24]

Don't look now, but they are only 3 back of Boston and 4 back of Tampa.

Both teams have games in hand on the Leafs, but that might not be the blessing we think as they go through some of the fixture congestion the Leafs had to endure earlier in the year.

I'm not so fixated on catching either team, as long as the Leafs are playing their best hockey when the playoffs roll around then I'm happy.  Boston and Tampa having to play more games down the stretch will add to their fatigue, so could be a good thing as you mention.

From a games played perspective we are better off having more behind us then most considering we are relatively healthy.

 

[Highlander]

Ya and we are playing bottom feeders all the way (for the most part)

 

[Zee]

Ya and we are playing bottom feeders all the way (for the most part)

Don't look now but Buffalo has won 3 of 4 including a win over Boston.  Maybe they're not bad anymore. 


Just kidding

 

[Highlander]

They have found their inner Eichel

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Eichel has been able to focus on his GM duties to really help the team.

 

[herman]

Rielly has played well this season but let's get serious: he is not now and likely never will be in the conversation for the Norris, so this comparison to Doughty is absurd.  Penguin model or no, spending money on Tavares is misplaced IMO.  Even if his equivalent is not available on D, use that money to get better on the backend.

I've been thinking about this and I think I see what the Leafs Front Office is leaning towards and I kind of agree with it. It's all opportunity cost stuff.

Givens:
The Leafs have very good to elite forwards across pretty much every age band on the roster, with the bulk of it resting in the younger third.
The Leafs have two or three very very good puck moving, offensive defenders.

What makes this team better?
1) Top-end defender (preferably RH) that can handle 25 min easily, suppresses shots and drives offense
2) Better 3C/4C: one to drive sheltered offense without being a complete defensive liability, and the other to play low event hockey and kill time and maybe help chip in goals.

What option has the greater impact at the better cost?

I would argue signing Tavares in the offseason is more valuable to the Leafs than trying to trade for, or wait to sign Karlsson/Doughty. They'll be commanding a similar amount of money at long term.

Adding a defender on top gives us a great 1st pair, a very good 2nd pair, and a pretty good 3rd pair. Nice.

Adding Tavares gives us 3(!) first lines, and a very good 3rd line. When Kadri's wonderful steal of a deal expires (or nears expiry), it's far easier to move on when Matthews, Tavares, Nylander are still there. Getting Tavares automatically improves every centre and line by pushing even more talent deeper. Opposing coaches will literally cry thinking about how to match up against us.

Our defensive weakness would still be there to a degree, but internal growth, subtracting pastry chefs like Polak, and adding stretch pass magicians like Liljegren during that timeframe means getting the pucks to our three line 1s all the more likely.

I can't stress this enough, but 3 defensively responsible and offensively wizardrous line 1s can easily prop up a slightly above average defense corps and a consistent goalie.

#BringJohnnyHome

 

[Zee]

Rielly has played well this season but let's get serious: he is not now and likely never will be in the conversation for the Norris, so this comparison to Doughty is absurd.  Penguin model or no, spending money on Tavares is misplaced IMO.  Even if his equivalent is not available on D, use that money to get better on the backend.

I've been thinking about this and I think I see what the Leafs Front Office is leaning towards and I kind of agree with it. It's all opportunity cost stuff.

Givens:
The Leafs have very good to elite forwards across pretty much every age band on the roster, with the bulk of it resting in the younger third.
The Leafs have two or three very very good puck moving, offensive defenders.

What makes this team better?
1) Top-end defender (preferably RH) that can handle 25 min easily, suppresses shots and drives offense
2) Better 3C/4C: one to drive sheltered offense without being a complete defensive liability, and the other to play low event hockey and kill time and maybe help chip in goals.

What option has the greater impact at the better cost?

I would argue signing Tavares in the offseason is more valuable to the Leafs than trying to trade for, or wait to sign Karlsson/Doughty. They'll be commanding a similar amount of money at long term.

Adding a defender on top gives us a great 1st pair, a very good 2nd pair, and a pretty good 3rd pair. Nice.

Adding Tavares gives us 3(!) first lines, and a very good 3rd line. When Kadri's wonderful steal of a deal expires (or nears expiry), it's far easier to move on when Matthews, Tavares, Nylander are still there. Getting Tavares automatically improves every centre and line by pushing even more talent deeper. Opposing coaches will literally cry thinking about how to match up against us.

Our defensive weakness would still be there to a degree, but internal growth, subtracting pastry chefs like Polak, and adding stretch pass magicians like Liljegren during that timeframe means getting the pucks to our three line 1s all the more likely.

I can't stress this enough, but 3 defensively responsible and offensively wizardrous line 1s can easily prop up a slightly above average defense corps and a consistent goalie.

#BringJohnnyHome

I don't want to dream too much about it, cause it likely won't happen.  But when I think about Kadri as 3rd line center...I mean...wow.

Just think of the top 3 lines center and right wing:

Matthews-Nylander
Tavares-Marner
Kadri-Kapanen (or Brown)

 

[Highlander]

Rielly has played well this season but let's get serious: he is not now and likely never will be in the conversation for the Norris, so this comparison to Doughty is absurd.  Penguin model or no, spending money on Tavares is misplaced IMO.  Even if his equivalent is not available on D, use that money to get better on the backend.

I've been thinking about this and I think I see what the Leafs Front Office is leaning towards and I kind of agree with it. It's all opportunity cost stuff.

Givens:
The Leafs have very good to elite forwards across pretty much every age band on the roster, with the bulk of it resting in the younger third.
The Leafs have two or three very very good puck moving, offensive defenders.

What makes this team better?
1) Top-end defender (preferably RH) that can handle 25 min easily, suppresses shots and drives offense
2) Better 3C/4C: one to drive sheltered offense without being a complete defensive liability, and the other to play low event hockey and kill time and maybe help chip in goals.

What option has the greater impact at the better cost?

I would argue signing Tavares in the offseason is more valuable to the Leafs than trying to trade for, or wait to sign Karlsson/Doughty. They'll be commanding a similar amount of money at long term.

Adding a defender on top gives us a great 1st pair, a very good 2nd pair, and a pretty good 3rd pair. Nice.

Adding Tavares gives us 3(!) first lines, and a very good 3rd line. When Kadri's wonderful steal of a deal expires (or nears expiry), it's far easier to move on when Matthews, Tavares, Nylander are still there. Getting Tavares automatically improves every centre and line by pushing even more talent deeper. Opposing coaches will literally cry thinking about how to match up against us.

Our defensive weakness would still be there to a degree, but internal growth, subtracting pastry chefs like Polak, and adding stretch pass magicians like Liljegren during that timeframe means getting the pucks to our three line 1s all the more likely.

I can't stress this enough, but 3 defensively responsible and offensively wizardrous line 1s can easily prop up a slightly above average defense corps and a consistent goalie.

#BringJohnnyHome

I don't want to dream too much about it, cause it likely won't happen.  But when I think about Kadri as 3rd line center...I mean...wow.

Just think of the top 3 lines center and right wing:

Matthews-Nylander
Tavares-Marner
Kadri-Kapanen (or Brown)

Why break up Kadri and Marner... why break up Astaire and Rogers, Abbott and Costello, Burns and Allen, Mutt and Jeff..come on crew we need more.