Got to say I am not surprised seats are empty in Toronto. Jays fans will support a winner that is very clear but management has chosen to sit on their wallets the last few off seasons. Attendance per game: 2016: 41,878, 2017: 39,554, 2018: 26,110. I guess those additional 15,000 people in seats isn't enough motivation to spend. Trade Donaldson and let's get on with it.
2018 Toronto Blue Jays General Season Thread
- Thread starter hockeyfan1
- Start date
Weird thing is I was a bigger fan before the two recent playoff runs. It's like I waited and waited and finally got some reward and now I am over waiting. Expectation was high and recent results have been low.
I don't agree with the tunnel focus on development right now, we have a young stellar pitching core that is fantastic on paper and a MVP. I think you build around that.
But, if Osuna is in fact done that might just be the straw that breaks the camel's back and we move into a full blown rebuild.
I don't agree with the tunnel focus on development right now, we have a young stellar pitching core that is fantastic on paper and a MVP. I think you build around that.
But, if Osuna is in fact done that might just be the straw that breaks the camel's back and we move into a full blown rebuild.
Kin
New member
cabber24 said:
Donaldson is 32 years old and the pitching core might look good on paper but they haven't been very good on the actual field. It's not like they're Sale-Kershaw level talents anyway.
Look at teams like the Yankees or Astros or Cubs or Indians. You're talking about multiple young all-star players developed by the organization. The Jays just simply don't have that. If they want a shot at long term success they need to build something like that.
herman
Well-known member
Syndergaard would?ve been nice to see develop here.
I do think (but haven?t researched enough) that the AA era of Jays had a lack of developmental gameplan. Draftees either put up, or were shipped out. AA had a pretty good eye for id-ing talent, but assets were treated as largely static entities.
If the goal was to merely put butts in seats, then mission accomplished, but I?d like to see a sustained level of pressure from the prospect pipeline that allows for quicker turnarounds of lost seasons without having to buy free agents every year.
I do think (but haven?t researched enough) that the AA era of Jays had a lack of developmental gameplan. Draftees either put up, or were shipped out. AA had a pretty good eye for id-ing talent, but assets were treated as largely static entities.
If the goal was to merely put butts in seats, then mission accomplished, but I?d like to see a sustained level of pressure from the prospect pipeline that allows for quicker turnarounds of lost seasons without having to buy free agents every year.
Aside from Syndergaard the Jays kept all their most important pieces. Yes, the Dickey trade was stupid, both at the time and in retrospect. I never liked it, personally. But the fact remains that AA brought us multiple runs of playoff baseball that had been missing here for a very long time. Not only that but he didn't completely bankrupt the system and shockingly the team has a shot at the wild card this season with a huge crop of young talent coming through the system. They have a young talented position player for every single position on the diamond. They are only lacking starting pitching prospects. However if you told me a year or two ago that the Jays would be in their current situation I would have been shocked. Shapiro and Atkins have done a marvelous job with respect to our prospects and our farm system. I think people get too caught up in AA's trades without realizing that he actually left us in pretty decent shape. Look at the trade for David Price. He was a beast pitching for the Jays. And Daniel Norris didn't really pan out well for Detroit. Similar things can also be said for most of the other prospects AA shipped out. Syndergaard is the lone exception. Sure, some others are decent, but no one else at that level that I know of.herman said:
The only other moderately stupid trade I can think of was Yan Gomes. I scratched my head when AA made that move.
Even the Tulo trade, with the albatross of the contract that is now hanging over the team, was a good trade. Tulo and David Price brought us playoff baseball in 2015. Never forget that. And the price was worth it, no pun intended.
hockeyfan1
New member
Nice role reversal.
A day after being routed 12-2, the Blue Jays came roaring back in a 12-1 drubbing of the NY Mets Wednesday night, and earning a split of this two-game inter-league series.
Homeruns by Richard Ure?a ( a three-run shot), solos by Justin Smoak (including three RBIs) and Teoscar Hernandez (also with three RBIs), along with contributions by Donaldson, Pillar, Granderson, and Happ (yes, starter J.A. Happ), all proved too much for starter Zack Wheeler & the Mets.
Speaking of Jays' starter J.A.Happ, not only did he pitch for seven scoreless innings in allowing just two hits with ten strikeouts in the process, but as a batter he reached base three times -- a franchise first.
A great day for the Blue Jays on all fronts and even better that they avoided slipping below. 500 on the year.
Game recap:
https://www.mlb.com/news/bats-back-ja-happ-as-blue-jays-beat-mets/c-276963444
A day after being routed 12-2, the Blue Jays came roaring back in a 12-1 drubbing of the NY Mets Wednesday night, and earning a split of this two-game inter-league series.
Homeruns by Richard Ure?a ( a three-run shot), solos by Justin Smoak (including three RBIs) and Teoscar Hernandez (also with three RBIs), along with contributions by Donaldson, Pillar, Granderson, and Happ (yes, starter J.A. Happ), all proved too much for starter Zack Wheeler & the Mets.
Speaking of Jays' starter J.A.Happ, not only did he pitch for seven scoreless innings in allowing just two hits with ten strikeouts in the process, but as a batter he reached base three times -- a franchise first.
A great day for the Blue Jays on all fronts and even better that they avoided slipping below. 500 on the year.
Game recap:
https://www.mlb.com/news/bats-back-ja-happ-as-blue-jays-beat-mets/c-276963444
hockeyfan1
New member
vs
Starting Pitchers:
Thursday May 17 7pm
Andrew Griggs RH (Athletics) 3-1 5.31 ERA vs Aaron Sanchez RH (Blue Jays) 2-3 4.08 ERA
Friday May 18 7pm
Brett Anderson LH (Atheltics) 0-2 8.16 ERA vs Marco Estrada RH (Blue Jays) 2-3 5.32 ERA
Saturday May 19 1pm
Sean Manaea LH (Athletics) 5-4 2.35 ERA vs Joe Biagini RH (Blue Jays) 0-2 7.98 ERA
Sunday May 20 1pm
Daniel Mengden RH (Athletics) 3-4 3.75 ERA vs Jaime Garcia LH (Blue Jays) 2-3 6.28 ERA
Source: SUNSports, ESPN.com, MLB.com
The Jays needed everything to go right this season in order to make the playoffs, and, well, everything is not going right. Tonight they fell below .500. It's kind of sad. To see them lose against lousy teams like Oakland and the Mets is pretty brutal. Hopefully they can turn things around. But it's looking more and more as though Josh Donaldson is going to be traded and they will start the rebuild. The big issue for the team right now is having two of their starting pitchers on the DL. It's going to be pitchers from Buffalo pitching all weekend long for them.
hockeyfan1
New member
sickbeast said:
Estrada tonight actually pitched solidly save for that one inning bsck in the sixth.
The trouble with the Blue Jay starters this year is that, apart from J.A. Happ, no one has gone the distance much and have been quite inconsistent in terms of runs allowed/innings pitched each time. More consistency would certainly help their starters to regain some steady form on the mound.
The Stroman situation is definitely frustrating and Donaldson, well, he's certainly not the "Bringer of Rain" anymore. More like the Bring-ing up on the DL type of player with his constant & on/off shoulder trouble. This isn't the same player who was once dubbed baseball''s most feared hitter. Not anymore.
The Jays can only expect so much from their prospects and no more for now. Patience is the word and rebuild is often associated with it.
But sickbeast, you're probably sounding the right chord on the Donaldson trade potential plus who knows who else?
If the Jays can't get into some sort of a winning streak to get sway from that .500 monster and soon enough, it's doubtful they'll even be in the running fora chance at the WC nor hanging on to third place, with the Tampa Bay Rays breathing down their necks in the standings. All hands need to be on deck, the starters need to get their groove back, and the bullpen needs some relief for itself. Oh yeah, the Osuna situation...
Inspite of all of this, I still hold out optimism for this season.
Hernandez, Ure?a, Alford, Smith Jr., Gaviglio, etc., etc. I like what I see so far.
L K
Active member
The Jays starters have a combined 5.54 ERA and 1.48 WHIP. You aren't going to win many games when your starters. Over their last 30 games they have a 6.07 ERA so if anything they are getting worse. Overall it's a fairly old rotation with Happ, Garcia and Estrada. Sanchez is showing a lot of rust and has control issues and Stroman has simply been bad.
Biagini's experiment as a starter should probably stop too. He's just not good the 2nd time through an order. His stuff is too good as a middle reliever/stretch guy who can go 2-3 innings to keep him in the minors.
Biagini's experiment as a starter should probably stop too. He's just not good the 2nd time through an order. His stuff is too good as a middle reliever/stretch guy who can go 2-3 innings to keep him in the minors.
I don't want to be right about it to be honest. I'm a big fan of the team. My dad is a season's ticket holder and I have been to a lot of great games including the Bautista bat flip game. But the wheels are very clearly coming off at this point. I think the whole Osuna thing was the straw that broke the camel's back.hockeyfan1 said:
How many of Oakland's starting pitchers were injured during this series against the Jays? And how many times did the Blue Jays capitalize on it? Remember, this is Oakland we are talking about.
Also I think Jose Bautista and Kendrys Morales went to the same eye doctor. Actually Morales has stopped wearing his glasses and he's actually hitting better.
The sad news about rebuilding is that Donaldson's trade value is greatly diminished. Also it makes zero sense calling up Guerrero if the team is out of contention this season. It would burn off a year of his ELC for no reason whatsoever. If they were going to do this they should have done it weeks ago while simultaneously DFA'ing Morales.
What other pieces do the Jays have to trade for future prospects? I can't think of many. None of their aging players have value. Maybe they could get something for Happ or Estrada. But I kind of see Happ as someone they could sign for a long-ish term to build their rotation around. He is reliable and quite good. Estrada does not seem like himself. Things could go either way with him. Who else do they have? Bullpen guys? I guess we did get Teoscar Hernandez for Liriano last season but I think it would be a stretch to say management could fleece a couple more teams again. We'll see. It's easy to look back now but the best move would have been to trade Donaldson during the off season.
By the way, did you guys see this user comment on the Sportsnet website about Jose Bautista getting DFA'ed?
I hated the comment and I love Jose Bautista but I have to admit that what he said was hilarious. And actually signing Bautista for nothing right now would be exactly the type of shrewd move that Atkins and Shapiro are known for. But I really do believe that Bautista hates the current management with all his heart.
Captain Canuck
New member
4 game sweep by Oakland and they take Carlos Ramirez with them on the way out of town. Looking more and more like this season is heading down the tubes.
Super frustrating watching this team parade Biagini out there as a starter....he is awful as a starter, he is a reliever...make him into a long man as L K suggested.
Nothing has changed on the Donaldson front....still have to move him in July to the highest bidder. No need to touch Vlad Jr., Solarte is more than capable playing 3B the rest of this season. So much for the middle infield depth being addressed in the off-season. No Tulo and Travis as sadly expected, but Diaz and Ngope not currently in the mix there either. Hello Urena and Urshela!
Super frustrating watching this team parade Biagini out there as a starter....he is awful as a starter, he is a reliever...make him into a long man as L K suggested.
Nothing has changed on the Donaldson front....still have to move him in July to the highest bidder. No need to touch Vlad Jr., Solarte is more than capable playing 3B the rest of this season. So much for the middle infield depth being addressed in the off-season. No Tulo and Travis as sadly expected, but Diaz and Ngope not currently in the mix there either. Hello Urena and Urshela!
hockeyfan1
New member
sickbeast said:
Tough to tell at this point, but you know what, I wouldn't doubt it. I wouldn't put the all of the blame load on Gibby, but if this team doesn't shake itself out of it's reverie, then anything goes.
I don't blame Gibby either but I'm starting to think a change is needed. He was great at dealing with the big egos like Bautista but I'm not sure he's the guy the younger players need right now. Also the Osuna thing happened and clearly it's not Gibby's fault, but I have a feeling there may have been warning signs. I think Gibbons might be too laid back and the players have run amok. That's the impression I'm getting. Even look at Stroman's behavior and the way he runs his mouth off. Most managers would shut down the studio on that immediately. Or else they would ship them out of town. Stroman comes across as an arrogant self-entitled spoiled brat to me. He must be cancer in the clubhouse.hockeyfan1 said:
hockeyfan1
New member
One good thing that came out of the Jays 9-2 drubbing at the hands of yhe A's Sunday afternoon was Kendrys Morales on the mound. Morales?! Yep. He hadn"t pitched since his days in Cuba and he got three flyouts after issuing a walk, all in the ninth.
Gibbons had exhausted his bullpen by then so Morales got the assignment. And a standing ovation thereafter to boot.
How's that for an afternoon of losing. Strange entertainment. At least something for the faithful to cheer for.
Blue Jays optioned Richard Urena to Triple A Buffalo.
Not since 2001 have the Blue Jays been swept four-zip on home turf.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-latest-loss-caps-atrocious-uncompetitive-weekend-vs-oakland/
Gibbons had exhausted his bullpen by then so Morales got the assignment. And a standing ovation thereafter to boot.
How's that for an afternoon of losing. Strange entertainment. At least something for the faithful to cheer for.
Blue Jays optioned Richard Urena to Triple A Buffalo.
Not since 2001 have the Blue Jays been swept four-zip on home turf.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-latest-loss-caps-atrocious-uncompetitive-weekend-vs-oakland/