2019 Draft Discussion

[Bates]

Correct, but the conversation then turned to Leafs vs Bruins in terms of bigger and heavier.

Yes and, again, I was referring to physical size. If you'd like to have a conversation about how they need to be tougher or more physical or stronger on the puck, let me hop in my time machine and get 2011 Brian Burke for you.

Or we could just go back a couple weeks and see how important it actually is in the NHL.

All things being equal, size is a great advantage, as long as it doesn't impact speed and skill. However, Parayko and Peiterangelo apparently have something more valuable in their game than Holl and Marincin.

It's not just size for me. If you were an opposition D playing the Leaf's I doubt you worry much about rushing as you head into the corner. On the other side we watch Leaf's D rush almost every play as they know what's coming. In Boston series as a reference. It's much harder to wear someone down with your skill as opposed to physically doing it.

 

[Kin]

Here's the #115 Mikhail Abramov:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=216515

A small forward with good offensive skill, apparently.

 

[Bates]

Or we could just go back a couple weeks and see how important it actually is in the NHL.

You mean when the Leafs took a team that made it to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals to a game 7? Or back further to the two Penguins cups? Was Washington's cup because they were a heavy team? If so, why did they get knocked out by Carolina this year? Who did Washington lose that made them less heavy?

Narratives switch from year to year about why teams win. Trying to follow them is just chasing your tail.

I think the Leaf's have been better skilled team in last few playoff series but we are missing something. Narratives don't really switch, playing a physical game has always been important.

 

[Zee]

124 Nicholas Abruzzese. Italian, I approve.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Here's the #115 Mikhail Abramov:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=216515

A small forward with good offensive skill, apparently.

Sensing a theme.

 

[Joe S.]

I'm blown away that Nik Antropov's kid is in this draft. Man I'm old.

I?ve seen him play at generals games. He does not seem like a future NHLer to me. Also keep in mind Nick had him real young, like 20 or 21.

 

[Kin]

I think the Leaf's have been better skilled team in last few playoff series but we are missing something. Narratives don't really switch, playing a physical game has always been important.

I notice you didn't actually answer any of those questions. Narratives always switch. The idea that the most physical team always wins a series just isn't true.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

It's not just size for me. If you were an opposition D playing the Leaf's I doubt you worry much about rushing as you head into the corner. On the other side we watch Leaf's D rush almost every play as they know what's coming. In Boston series as a reference. It's much harder to wear someone down with your skill as opposed to physically doing it.

I know what you're saying, but I think it's much more nuanced that that. We saw poor transitions on the leafs D all year, and it was more relative to the fact they weren't very good, as opposed to being worn down. And again, size is great, but size and speed and hands is very, very expensive or even unavailable much of the time, and I don't think you can be successful without the last two aspects as priority, particularly in the current game.

 

[Bates]

I think the Leaf's have been better skilled team in last few playoff series but we are missing something. Narratives don't really switch, playing a physical game has always been important.

I notice you didn't actually answer any of those questions. Narratives always switch. The idea that the most physical team always wins a series just isn't true.

I don't recall saying that the most physical team always wins so I'm not going to defend it. The old saying goes hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. We don't need heavy play out of Matthews, Marner , and such but icing a 3rd and 4th line in the NHL who could play with eggs in their pockets is not a recipe for success. There is room for every kind of player but we are sorely lacking in one dept.

 

[Bates]

It's not just size for me. If you were an opposition D playing the Leaf's I doubt you worry much about rushing as you head into the corner. On the other side we watch Leaf's D rush almost every play as they know what's coming. In Boston series as a reference. It's much harder to wear someone down with your skill as opposed to physically doing it.

I know what you're saying, but I think it's much more nuanced that that. We saw poor transitions on the leafs D all year, and it was more relative to the fact they weren't very good, as opposed to being worn down. And again, size is great, but size and speed and hands is very, very expensive or even unavailable much of the time, and I don't think you can be successful without the last two aspects as priority, particularly in the current game.

Imo if I'm not drafting or signing a highly skilled player I am signing only players who are above average skaters who like to get their nose dirty. Not tgat interested in non core players who play on the outside.

 

[Kin]

The old saying goes hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

So now it's harder work they need? Or was it physicality? Or "heaviness"?

Again, it's the same old story. A team loses, people construct narratives as to why. They win, those same things become positives. It's getting the facts to fit the story, not the other way around.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Not tgat interested in non core players who play on the outside.

Who are you referring to on the team from last year that fits this criteria?

 

[Bates]

The old saying goes hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

So now it's harder work they need? Or was it physicality? Or "heaviness"?

Again, it's the same old story. A team loses, people construct narratives as to why. They win, those same things become positives. It's getting the facts to fit the story, not the other way around.

Hard work and heaviness go hand in hand. You really are trying too hard on this one. It isn't about short term memory, being hard to play against while still being skilled is as old as time.

 

[Bates]

Not tgat interested in non core players who play on the outside.

Who are you referring to on the team from last year that fits this criteria?

No one, our core is not the problem.

 

[Andy007]

Robertson was born on September 11, 2001

Wow. Just a day after the Strokes released their debut album. Really makes you think.

Hmm...I guess you really can always look at things from other...ahem....angles



(I'm not sure that pun was worth the 2 page bump but I don't care  )

 

[Kin]

Hard work and heaviness go hand in hand. You really are trying too hard on this one. It isn't about short term memory, being hard to play against while still being skilled is as old as time.

It's an attribute. Like every other attribute. Sometimes it can be decisive, other times it isn't and other attributes win out. You're the one pushing for its primacy without any real evidence. As such, I'm confident in sticking with the literal truth of saying that the Leafs were bigger and heavier than the Bruins.

 

[herman]

Looking at size or physicality is the surface of what leads to success; they?re just methods for achieving the real reason these teams won the Cup: they had the puck. There are multiple ways to consistently have the puck more than the other team, be it through reach, speed, or skill. The Bruins feared Marner rightfully because he could hold the puck and make plays.

 

[Bates]

Hard work and heaviness go hand in hand. You really are trying too hard on this one. It isn't about short term memory, being hard to play against while still being skilled is as old as time.

It's an attribute. Like every other attribute. Sometimes it can be decisive, other times it isn't and other attributes win out. You're the one pushing for its primacy without any real evidence. As such, I'm confident in sticking with the literal truth of saying that the Leafs were bigger and heavier than the Bruins.

Yeah you are on the wrong side of this one.

 

[Kin]

Yeah you are on the wrong side of this one.

Oh my goodness, you think I'm wrong about something. However will I cope?

 

[Kin]

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/427432/mike-koster

For a little change of pace, an undersized defenceman in the 5th round.