2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[herman]

I really don?t see the concern here. It?s a league min contract for an NHL depth player. He either makes it out of training camp due to earning a spot, fills an AHL role for call up, or gets moved to another opportunity for an asset. Malgin plays bigger than his size, has nice wheels, and plays greasy. Petan has top-6 ice vision and hands that just hasn?t had an opening, and is versatile enough to play all three forward positions. They?re basically free.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Yup. I've seen other places where people are whining about the signing. He's not signed to be Matthews' new winger.

 

[ZBBM]

I don't get why they traded for Malgin or Petan, and still remain confused on why they're still around, but ain't my money, they need players in the AHL, and there's bigger concerns, I guess.

They can be plugged into bottom or top 6 lines. They won?t excel but they won?t burn you either. Maybe get an odd goal.

They're small waterbugs with no physical dimension to their game, that don't kill penalties and aren't skilled enough to play top 6. The leafs need role players, not increasingly blurred photocopies of the first and second lines.

I'm with Frycer, though admittedly large because of his turn of phrase.

 

[Kin]

I really don?t see the concern here. It?s a league min contract for an NHL depth player.

Something we should be used to in Leaf talkin' circles is that when the Leafs are coming off a disappointing end to their season, or effectively every year, any move that will be made in the off-season, regardless of how inconsequential, will be judged against the ideal. So while these guys are 4th liners at most, they're not perfect 4th liners so they'll be seen as evidence of the team isn't "solving their problems".

This will go double for areas of real need like defense where someone signed as the team's 8th defenseman will be judged for not being a particularly exciting version of an 8th defenseman but also for not being Chris Pronger.

It's a weird quirk of the dissatisfied Leaf fan but it's not new.

 

[herman]

That?s a keen observation, Nik. What if all our employers operated like Leaf fans: eh you weren?t perfect so, bye.

I choose to approach these fringe moves by assessing the options they present and where they appear to be on the development curve. 

What even is a perfect 4th liner? Isn?t that by definition an imperfect player? Isn?t the 4th line style of play (sucking but looking like you?re working hard) basically a concession that the league has a dearth of talent (or cap space)?

Malgin was picked up for Mason Marchment, a player we got for free off the ECHL scrap heap (who once cross checked Marner in the face in the OHL), rehabbed his capabilities to serviceable, and traded this prototypical 4th line physical dude into a younger, more effective at puck control and creating zone entries dude who is the same age as the aforementioned Mitch Marner (does that guy have room for growth?).

Don?t get me wrong, I have barely thought about Malgin until now (he is no Seth Griffith), but he is a cost controlled asset who expires to RFA and we basically have 3 years to see if he can develop into something meaningfulish.

 

[Kin]

What even is a perfect 4th liner? Isn?t that by definition an imperfect player? Isn?t the 4th line style of play (sucking but looking like you?re working hard) basically a concession that the league has a dearth of talent (or cap space)?

Well, I mean, the League does have a dearth of talent in as much as there are only going to be so many guys capable of being top 6 players. I don't see that as much of a concession.

As to the "What makes for an ideal 4th liner" I think most people would say that it's someone who, while not capable of being a top 6 player or contributing offensively the way we'd like, would still contribute something at a high level. Whether it's penalty killing or physical play or leadership something along those lines.

I appreciate that for people who think they've condensed winning hockey games down to a simple numbers in and numbers out formula that may come across as "sucking" but I think it's more a recognition that, especially come playoff time, different skillsets aside from just offensive contributions and puck control can contribute to the occasional victory.

 

[Bullfrog]

I choose to approach these fringe moves by assessing the options they present and where they appear to be on the development curve. 

An alternative approach, which I espouse, is to not think of them at all.

 

[Redleaf]

I don't get why they traded for Malgin or Petan, and still remain confused on why they're still around, but ain't my money, they need players in the AHL, and there's bigger concerns, I guess.

They can be plugged into bottom or top 6 lines. They won?t excel but they won?t burn you either. Maybe get an odd goal.

They're small waterbugs with no physical dimension to their game, that don't kill penalties and aren't skilled enough to play top 6. The leafs need role players, not increasingly blurred photocopies of the first and second lines.

I'm with Frycer, though admittedly large because of his turn of phrase.

Great line. I'll have to remember that one.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I appreciate that for people who think they've condensed winning hockey games down to a simple numbers in and numbers out formula that may come across as "sucking" but I think it's more a recognition that, especially come playoff time, different skillsets aside from just offensive contributions and puck control can contribute to the occasional victory.

Yeah, I think that pretty much sums it up nicely. I don't think there's necessarily a "template" of skillset mix that has to be approximated, but I do think there's an advantage to being able to roll out different looks based upon the opponent and stage of the game.

 

[herman]

I think it's more a recognition that, especially come playoff time, different skillsets aside from just offensive contributions and puck control can contribute to the occasional victory.

Certainly true. But Malgin?s re-signing doesn?t preclude the team from being able to add such players. And we need top-6 replacement depth too (arguably moreso than grinders and blockers).

 

[Kin]

I think it's more a recognition that, especially come playoff time, different skillsets aside from just offensive contributions and puck control can contribute to the occasional victory.

Certainly true. But Malgin?s re-signing doesn?t preclude the team from being able to add such players. And we need top-6 replacement depth too (arguably moreso than grinders and blockers).

Right but, again, in the Maple Leafs' offseason all moves will be judged against an imaginary ideal, even 4th liners. In the words of my favourite cocaine abusing Mancunian brothers, you've got to roll with it.

 

[Bender]

I think it's more a recognition that, especially come playoff time, different skillsets aside from just offensive contributions and puck control can contribute to the occasional victory.

Certainly true. But Malgin?s re-signing doesn?t preclude the team from being able to add such players. And we need top-6 replacement depth too (arguably moreso than grinders and blockers).

Right but, again, in the Maple Leafs' offseason all moves will be judged against an imaginary ideal, even 4th liners. In the words of my favourite cocaine abusing Mancunian brothers, you've got to roll with it.

I think it's time for a Gin & Tonic.

 

[Highlander]

I think it's more a recognition that, especially come playoff time, different skillsets aside from just offensive contributions and puck control can contribute to the occasional victory.

Certainly true. But Malgin?s re-signing doesn?t preclude the team from being able to add such players. And we need top-6 replacement depth too (arguably moreso than grinders and blockers).

Right but, again, in the Maple Leafs' offseason all moves will be judged against an imaginary ideal, even 4th liners. In the words of my favourite cocaine abusing Mancunian brothers, you've got to roll with it.

I think it's time for a Gin & Tonic.

I'll 2nd that notion.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1313141968042684416

Radko Gudas, come on down!

 

[Bender]

I think Ryan Donato would've been a good pickup for a 3rd (gone to SJ). Pretty cheap, still young I think has some upside, improves centre depth. Oh well.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1313143428390281218

 

[Frank E]

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1313141968042684416

Radko Gudas, come on down!

And maybe Clifford doesn't get the UFA dollars he's hoping for...circles back.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1313143428390281218

So what you're saying is that he thinks the draft is imperative to the future progress of their program.

 

[Guilt Trip]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1313143428390281218

So what you're saying is that he thinks the draft is imperative to the future progress of their program.

Nice twist but you're not off the hook lol.

 

[bustaheims]

I think Ryan Donato would've been a good pickup for a 3rd (gone to SJ). Pretty cheap, still young I think has some upside, improves centre depth. Oh well.

His cap hit is a bit of an issue. $1.9M is probably too high for the role and expected production he'd have with the Leafs.