2020-2021 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[Phileas Fogg]

It's a moops/moors point regardless, because injuries happen, and they need a 7-8 ready to step in. Trading that depth away seems premature.

Right but this was in the context of trading him for Weegar so it doesn't affect the depth on D.

I didn't read that context in guilt trip's comment.

 

[Guilt Trip]

It's a moops/moors point regardless, because injuries happen, and they need a 7-8 ready to step in. Trading that depth away seems premature.

If Sandin makes the team, that means someone like Dermott/Holl must go on waivers is my point so instead of losing them on waivers for nothing you facilitate a trade.

 

[L K]

Jake Muzzin didn't make the NHL full-time until he was 24.

I mean, that's not strictly speaking true. He was 23. Sure, by a month, but that's because it was the second lockout year and he probably would have made the team in September 2012 if that was when the season started. In his second full year in the NHL, when he was 24/25, he played 19 minutes a night in the regular season and then 23 minutes a night for a team that won the cup. Brodie likewise was a top 4 defenseman already.

Again, Dermott may take that step this year, I'm not ruling it out. But we shouldn't be talking about him and what he might be in "a couple years" because even in the cases you mention, and where I think you're a little wrong about, those were guys who at 24 were top 4 defensemen.

In Dermott's defense, if he has a good offseason and takes a jump in his performance he stays on that same development path.  I'm torn on things with him.  I think Holl is the better defenseman for the team today.  I still think Dermott might have another gear to be a better top 4 fit long-term.

 

[Frank E]

Jake Muzzin didn't make the NHL full-time until he was 24.

I mean, that's not strictly speaking true. He was 23. Sure, by a month, but that's because it was the second lockout year and he probably would have made the team in September 2012 if that was when the season started. In his second full year in the NHL, when he was 24/25, he played 19 minutes a night in the regular season and then 23 minutes a night for a team that won the cup. Brodie likewise was a top 4 defenseman already.

Again, Dermott may take that step this year, I'm not ruling it out. But we shouldn't be talking about him and what he might be in "a couple years" because even in the cases you mention, and where I think you're a little wrong about, those were guys who at 24 were top 4 defensemen.

In Dermott's defense, if he has a good offseason and takes a jump in his performance he stays on that same development path.  I'm torn on things with him.  I think Holl is the better defenseman for the team today.  I still think Dermott might have another gear to be a better top 4 fit long-term.

I hope he's got another gear too, but I feel like we've been saying that for a while.

 

[herman]

CJ on SDP Oct 12:

This is the one thing about the Leafs, for all the crap they take from the hot take artists: they don't have bad contracts. So all these players are movable. Yeah you might might not love the number for Johnsson because you have a cap problem, but other teams look at 3.4 and the fact he's signed now for this year plus two more, they like that security. Like, that's a great number for him; like, we know we're going to bring him in and he'll be a player for us for a couple of years. And the fact the Leafs structured it where it was front-loaded with the money made it so he's actually paid less. Like, they've done a lot of smart business here and unfortunately, the people that just come at them with stupid crap get all the attention for the stupid crap they throw at them... but, like, the truth is the Leafs have been a really smart front office.

I know they haven't won a playoff series and all the things you can trot out there, but they're pushing the boundaries and using their financial might to maneuver this whole cap picture, and I think they've done a great job of it. It's all going to pay off one day, you watch it, they're going to become a force and everyone's going to be like, 'Oh yeah, of course that was always going to happen', but right now they're taking a lot of bullets.

So you can sort of see why Chris Johnston gets all the Dubas secrets

 

[Kaberle15]

My offseason shopping list and Dubas' progress so far:
(x) Keep Nylander
(x) Draft at least one of Topi Niemela, Anton Johannesson, Marat Khusnutdinov
(x) Offload Kapanen for space and peace of mind
(x) Add top-4 D for right side
(x) Tertiary goalie depth
(x) Add Hy/Coleman-y prospects
( ) Add hard-stop bottom-six centre to alleviate DZ draws from Tavares/Matthews; bolster PK draws if possible

Hey Herman, Does Thornton fit that job ?

 

[herman]

My offseason shopping list and Dubas' progress so far:
(x) Keep Nylander
(x) Draft at least one of Topi Niemela, Anton Johannesson, Marat Khusnutdinov
(x) Offload Kapanen for space and peace of mind
(x) Add top-4 D for right side
(x) Tertiary goalie depth
(x) Add Hy/Coleman-y prospects
( ) Add hard-stop bottom-six centre to alleviate DZ draws from Tavares/Matthews; bolster PK draws if possible

Hey Herman, Does Thornton fit that job ?

Partially. He can take draws but if he loses it his lack of speed is a liability in that situation.

If Malhotra can work on Hyman/Engvall on the draw, maybe we have some built in options. So much of taking draws is building up a mental library of opponents and their tendencies though.

The Chicago Steel, the other Darryl Belfry team-level client, and staff trader with the Leafs (Greg Moore, Noelle Needham) teach everyone to take draws. I think they have a few situations where defensemen take the face offs to spring more attackers out of the DZ. I think we are going to see almost that here.

 

[Guilt Trip]

My offseason shopping list and Dubas' progress so far:
(x) Keep Nylander
(x) Draft at least one of Topi Niemela, Anton Johannesson, Marat Khusnutdinov
(x) Offload Kapanen for space and peace of mind
(x) Add top-4 D for right side
(x) Tertiary goalie depth
(x) Add Hy/Coleman-y prospects
( ) Add hard-stop bottom-six centre to alleviate DZ draws from Tavares/Matthews; bolster PK draws if possible

Hey Herman, Does Thornton fit that job ?

No. As much as I like Thornton, I don't know if he's right for the Leafs because we have Spezza already. Is there any UFA out there that can fill that kind of role and add even more?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I'm not sure I get the idea that Spezza's presence on the team means we can't have Thornton. Aside from being old and more pass-first players they're pretty different both in play styles and in likely roles (Thornton is a better two-way player and would play on the 3rd line while Spezza plays on the 4th line).

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I hope they can work something out with Thornton, but he might make even more sense as a deadline acquisition.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I'm not sure I get the idea that Spezza's presence on the team means we can't have Thornton. Aside from being old and more pass-first players they're pretty different both in play styles and in likely roles (Thornton is a better two-way player and would play on the 3rd line while Spezza plays on the 4th line).

I don't know about him being able to keep up as a 3rd line guy. I think of it this way. He made it known that he wanted to be traded at the deadline to a contending team. Don't you find it curious that nobody wanted him for a cup run? They could have had him for a crappy pick. 
So let's say the Leafs get him. Who comes out of the lineup?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

My take on that was more that the Sharks decided not to trade him away. There were teams that inquired: Friedman reported that the Islanders did. Maybe their asking price was too high. They got a 3rd for Marleau which seemed very high (and considering how he played that was obviously a waste of a pick).

And again he scored at a 36 point pace with solid possession numbers on a crap team while playing a 3rd line role last season. I don't think expecting him to play as a 3C is a stretch.

 

[Guilt Trip]

My take on that was more that the Sharks decided not to trade him away. There were teams that inquired: Friedman reported that the Islanders did. Maybe their asking price was too high. They got a 3rd for Marleau which seemed very high (and considering how he played that was obviously a waste of a pick).

And again he scored at a 36 point pace with solid possession numbers on a crap team while playing a 3rd line role last season. I don't think expecting him to play as a 3C is a stretch.

Well, if we do get him I  certainly hope he can play the 3rd line centre role. We'll see what happens after Mikheyev signs by next week. 

 

[herman]

Not directly Leafs team related, but Dicky is back
https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1316741862737104897

 

[L K]

Not directly Leafs team related, but Dicky is back
https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1316741862737104897

I don't know if he is a guy who has the mentality to be a coach but he seems like a guy who would be a great presence for strength/development.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I don't know if he is a guy who has the mentality to be a coach but he seems like a guy who would be a great presence for strength/development.

Pretty sure he has a guaranteed job somewhere in the Leafs/Marlies organization once he retires if he wants it.

 

[herman]

I don't know if he is a guy who has the mentality to be a coach but he seems like a guy who would be a great presence for strength/development.

He already does that. He did mention towards the beginning of the league shutdown that routine and purpose are key elements to his sobriety. The Leafs facilities opening back up and getting to hang with the teammates again should help a lot.

 

[L K]

I don't know if he is a guy who has the mentality to be a coach but he seems like a guy who would be a great presence for strength/development.

He already does that. He did mention towards the beginning of the league shutdown that routine and purpose are key elements to his sobriety. The Leafs facilities opening back up and getting to hang with the teammates again should help a lot.

Yeah, I think I didn't end my statement right.  I was thinking more when his playing career is done.  Hopefully he stays with the organization long-term because he seems like a great one to keep around for that.

 

[herman]

I don't know if he is a guy who has the mentality to be a coach but he seems like a guy who would be a great presence for strength/development.

He already does that. He did mention towards the beginning of the league shutdown that routine and purpose are key elements to his sobriety. The Leafs facilities opening back up and getting to hang with the teammates again should help a lot.

Yeah, I think I didn't end my statement right.  I was thinking more when his playing career is done.  Hopefully he stays with the organization long-term because he seems like a great one to keep around for that.

I think I understood what you meant, and I should've outlined that I agreed haha. He's already a great fit on the dev team from the bench and might as well just stay after the playing is done.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1317105054420148224
Lmao