2022 Blue Jays
- Thread starter Deebo
- Start date
Kin
New member
Bill_Berg_is_sad said:
I think it makes sense if you consider a few things. The Jays clearly want to give most of the DH at-bats to Kirk or Teoscar or spelling guys who need a day off. So if the Grichuk/Tapia role is mainly going to be a bench one, who gives you more versatility? Tapia's a lefty, can be used as a pinch runner and is probably roughly the same defensively.
There's also the question of whether or not Grichuk would be happy being a bench player.
dappleganger
Active member
Basically this:
https://twitter.com/AndrewStoeten/status/1507067331721277451
https://twitter.com/AndrewStoeten/status/1507067331721277451
LittleHockeyFan
Moderator
*sniffle* but I liked Grichuk...
bustaheims
Active member
As a 4th outfielder/pinch runner type, Tapia is fine. He's not going to be much of a contributor, but he shouldn't be much of a hinderance, either. For a bench player, that's okay.
L K
Active member
bustaheims said:
I think he rated out to average-to-above average defensively when playing in CF. Has decent reads/routes to balls and has the speed to get to balls in the gap. He's definitely a downgrade on Grichuk and I do think the Jays will miss April/May Grichuk who hits like an MVP before he falls off the map and becomes a profoundly underwhelming player the rest of the year.
I think the bigger thing is it gets the Jays a left handed bat for their 4th outfielder and frees up money for a guy who probably isn't going to get a lot of playing time between Kirk getting DH roles and hopefully using the DH role to give everyone else off-days. That money will be better served when the Jays go shopping later in the year.
Personally I'm still excited for the changes Espinal made in terms of building muscle. He has a good eye for getting the bat on the ball. I know his numbers are small sample size but I think there is something there with him as a player.
Heroic Shrimp
New member
https://twitter.com/rpandolfino/status/1507740316446691331
Ugh.
Ugh.
Highlander
Active member
His attorney handles the legal, first infraction and the Jays let it slip away.
L K
Active member
No more grocery store philandry.
Reese McGuire traded to the White Sox for Zach Collins.
It's a catcher for catcher trade. Not a terrible idea with the persistent Ramirez trade rumours. Collins still has options so can go to AAA and if a trade does end up moving out Kirk you still have a backup catcher ready to go.
Reese McGuire traded to the White Sox for Zach Collins.
It's a catcher for catcher trade. Not a terrible idea with the persistent Ramirez trade rumours. Collins still has options so can go to AAA and if a trade does end up moving out Kirk you still have a backup catcher ready to go.
Kin
New member
L K said:
You know, I get why Ramirez is so attractive and I'm still on board with trading for him provided it doesn't mean losing Moreno but if the Jays do end up landing him then I really think it would make the Chapman deal look weird. I know the idea is you move Ramirez to 2B but still, feels like trading your best P prospect for a guy who might end up as the second best 3B on your team is jumping the gun.
L K
Active member
Nik said:
I agree. Beyond that I don't even think trading Martinez or Moreno makes sense at this point. If Vlad looks anything like last year the Jays are probably best suited to sign him to a long extension in the next year or two. The Jays might be better off holding on to those assets to fill in gaps in the next 2-3 years as they hit the Majors. Biggio/Espinal isn't remotely equivalent to Ramirez but I wonder just how much the team is upgrade for that 1 year of Ramirez.
They added one of the best defensive 3B in baseball with a good offensive track record, a position of need. They did this at very reasonable cost, despite including their best pitching prospect. At that time, it appeared that Cleveland was willing to go into the season with Ramirez on the roster so I understand why they would make the move for Chapman. Missing out on this deal, and then not being able to get Ramirez would have left a massive hole
Now there are reports that Cleveland will trade him if aren't able to sign him. If they have made that decision, it might make Ramirez available without including Morneo or Martinez. If none of the teams looking to acquire him are including a prospect of that calibre and Cleveland has decided to sell him, they may have to settle for less.
I agree that with the acquisition of Chapman, they shouldn't include one either of the 2 top prospects but I don't think the Jays have been willing to include one of those 2 in a deal because Cleveland probably would have accepted that by now.
If they are able to make a deal without them, then I think they should jump on the opportunity to add another MVP level bat to the line-up for 2 seasons.
Now there are reports that Cleveland will trade him if aren't able to sign him. If they have made that decision, it might make Ramirez available without including Morneo or Martinez. If none of the teams looking to acquire him are including a prospect of that calibre and Cleveland has decided to sell him, they may have to settle for less.
I agree that with the acquisition of Chapman, they shouldn't include one either of the 2 top prospects but I don't think the Jays have been willing to include one of those 2 in a deal because Cleveland probably would have accepted that by now.
If they are able to make a deal without them, then I think they should jump on the opportunity to add another MVP level bat to the line-up for 2 seasons.
Kin
New member
Deebo said:
Massive hole strikes me as a bit of an exaggeration. Going into the season with Espinal at 3B and Biggio at 2B wouldn't have been ideal but I still think the Jays have a very, very good lineup. Espinal, while you probably can't count on him to hit as well as he did last year, was not a bad minor league hitter and fielded the heck out of the position. He had a 2.5 bWAR in 92 games last year. I don't think duplicating that would be easy but the guy showed some potential to be a credible major league starter.
That said on the bigger picture we agree. If you can get Ramirez for a reasonable price, you get him. My only thing there is what if the Chapman deal has hamstrung you a bit there in terms of now the trade being contingent not only on Cleveland liking the prospects you offer but also getting Ramirez, a legit superstar, to agree to move to a position he hasn't really played in 5 years. Like I said, I'm with you in that if Ramirez is amenable and he doesn't cost Moreno(I could be talked into Martinez if it means keeping Groshans and/or Kirk) you make the deal but if Ramirez isn't up for moving to 2B you maybe lose the opportunity to add the better player.
If the reports of what Cleveland are offering Ramirez are correct it feels unlikely that Cleveland would have been like "We're not trading Jose for anything other than a massive, top tier package" two weeks ago then after Ramirez turns down two contracts that are way, way below market value they'd turn around and be open to getting a much lesser return. If they weren't serious about offering him a contract he'd reasonably accept I feel like they couldn't have been that firm in their demands for trading him earlier.
This isn't really a criticism and there's obviously a lot of ways things could shake out(Maybe Chapman is open to some time at 2B?) but it just feels like either the Guardians front office is wildly erratic or the situation could maybe have been better anticipated a bit by the Blue Jays with Espinal a not terrible fall back.
bustaheims
Active member
Also worth keeping in mind that Ramirez is under team control until after to 2023 season, so, Cleveland isn't exactly under the gun to move him. If they aren't planning a complete teardown and rebuild, the price to acquire him will remain quite high until we get well into next season. The Guardians just have no reason to come down off their demands right now.