• For users coming over from tmlfans.ca your username will remain the same but you will need to use the password reset feature (check your spam folder) on the login page in order to set your password. If you encounter issues, email Rick couchmanrick@gmail.com

2022 Blue Jays

bustaheims said:
Also worth keeping in mind that Ramirez is under team control until after to 2023 season, so, Cleveland isn't exactly under the gun to move him. If they aren't planning a complete teardown and rebuild, the price to acquire him will remain quite high until we get well into next season. The Guardians just have no reason to come down off their demands right now.
Click to expand...

I suppose but If Cleveland doesn't have real hopes of competing in the next two years the only thing holding onto Ramirez does is decrease his value. They waited until Lindor only had the one year left of team control and he was arguably more valuable than Ramirez and they got a package from the Mets that most people considered pretty lackluster.

You could hold onto him for a few months and hope some team gets desperate and offers the farm but that seems like a pretty big risk considering he could get hurt or have a bad start or something.
 
Nik said:
Massive hole strikes me as a bit of an exaggeration. Going into the season with Espinal at 3B and Biggio at 2B wouldn't have been ideal but I still think the Jays have a very, very good lineup. Espinal, while you probably can't count on him to hit as well as he did last year, was not a bad minor league hitter and fielded the heck out of the position. He had a 2.5 bWAR in 92 games last year. I don't think duplicating that would be easy but the guy showed some potential to be a credible major league starter.
Click to expand...

Maybe a little dramatic sure, I'll say offensive question marks at 2B and 3B instead. I wouldn't have been comfortable going into the year with both Espinal and Biggio in everyday roles though. I think Chapman's floor is close to Espinal's ceiling and I liked getting more certainty than a potential credible starter at 2 positions.

Nik said:
That said on the bigger picture we agree. If you can get Ramirez for a reasonable price, you get him. My only thing there is what if the Chapman deal has hamstrung you a bit there in terms of now the trade being contingent not only on Cleveland liking the prospects you offer but also getting Ramirez, a legit superstar, to agree to move to a position he hasn't really played in 5 years. Like I said, I'm with you in that if Ramirez is amenable and he doesn't cost Moreno(I could be talked into Martinez if it means keeping Groshans and/or Kirk) you make the deal but if Ramirez isn't up for moving to 2B you maybe lose the opportunity to add the better player.
Click to expand...

Hoglund was the only legitimate prospect they included in the deal for Chapman. Not having Logue, Smith or Snead isn't going to impact the Jays ability to make another deal. I get the position change being a concern for a potential Ramirez deal, but I wouldn't be passing on a good deal because Cleveland may trade Ramirez and it may have been to the Jays. Chapman was there and at a good price, a bird in the hand and such.

If the position change ends up being a dealbreaker for Ramirez, they can move on to a different 2B target during the year should the Espinal/Biggio combination not work. They still have the assets they would have traded in a Ramirez deal to make it happen.

Nik said:
If the reports of what Cleveland are offering Ramirez are correct it feels unlikely that Cleveland would have been like "We're not trading Jose for anything other than a massive, top tier package" two weeks ago then after Ramirez turns down two contracts that are way, way below market value they'd turn around and be open to getting a much lesser return. If they weren't serious about offering him a contract he'd reasonably accept I feel like they couldn't have been that firm in their demands for trading him earlier.
Click to expand...

Cleveland easily could have been planning to move him all along if they didn't sign him but were telling teams that they were willing to go into the season with them in hopes of extracting more value. Then as their internal deadline approaches, they lessen thier demands. They could have been leaking that they were negotiating an extension to pressure teams who were persuing him.

There are quite a few possibilities as to why they accept less now than they would have a few weeks ago.
 
Pearson can't buy a break.

https://www.tsn.ca/toronto-blue-jays-nate-pearson-out-for-a-while-with-mono-1.1781118
 
Welp, onto Plan C I suppose

Edit: Although for what it's worth, I think the fact that the Padres had been rumoured to be in on the deal as much as the Jays says that it wasn't so much a case as the Jays pursuing a deal the Guardians were reluctant to make and then setting the price prohibitively high but rather the Guardians were looking to trade him but nobody was willing to come up with the price Cleveland was looking for.
 
In a follow up tweet, Passan said that they were talking about trades with other teams and were prepared to move Ramirez if he didn't agree to an extension.

The full no trade clause and the relatively low AAV indicates that has no interest in moving so a trade was probably never going to happen. Ramirez was always going to extend and was just pushing for as much as he could before the season started.
 
Deebo said:
The full no trade clause and the relatively low AAV indicates that has no interest in moving so a trade was probably never going to happen. Ramirez was always going to extend and was just pushing for as much as he could before the season started.
Click to expand...

I don't know about that. Getting the full NTC says to me more that if he was going to get traded he wants to say where.

Because I still don't see how this makes a ton of sense for Cleveland. Ramirez is 29 and they don't seem to be on the precipice of anything in particular. They had 5 guys on the MLB top 100 but nobody above #47. Are they realistically going to be challenging the White Sox and Twins before Ramirez is 31 or 32?

I wouldn't be shocked if we see Ramirez traded in a year or two, just to a place he wants to go.
 
Nik said:
I don't know about that. Getting the full NTC says to me more that if he was going to get traded he wants to say where.

Because I still don't see how this makes a ton of sense for Cleveland. Ramirez is 29 and they don't seem to be on the precipice of anything in particular. They had 5 guys on the MLB top 100 but nobody above #47. Are they realistically going to be challenging the White Sox and Twins before Ramirez is 31 or 32?

I wouldn't be shocked if we see Ramirez traded in a year or two, just to a place he wants to go.
Click to expand...

I don't think taking this deal makes sense for Ramirez unless he wanted to stay and was told he'd be moved unless he agreed to an extension.

Yeah, he could eventually be traded (likely?), I meant that signing at these terms makes me believe he wasn't being traded before this season.
 
Jays and Guardians make a deal:

https://twitter.com/CleGuardians/status/1512218709254975490

Glove first 4th OF, with some potentia to hit for some power, strikes out A LOT.
 
I think, no matter how the season turns out in terms of success, that last night is very much how it?s going to be - a bit mad and very entertaining.

The way the batting lineup is, they?re never really going to be out of a game.
 
WhatIfGodWasALeaf said:
As a casual, this not good for making me more interested this year.
Click to expand...

935-B9764-F203-4242-9-D1-C-6202006-B6278.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

About Us

This website is NOT associated with the Toronto Maple Leafs or the NHL.


It is operated by Rick Couchman and Jeff Lewis.
Back
Top