All quiet on the Leaf front. But why?

[Strangelove]

My "best case" scenario is really that we tank this year, sell off Connolly, Lombardi, Armstrong at the deadline, obtain another top 5 pick and reload with the 2014 free agents (hoping there are many).  Maybe by 2016, we will have a decent team.

Been there, did that ...last year .... and the year before that etc etc

We started from a position in which JFJ had traded away a bunch of our first-round picks, we had no prospects, we lost all our top-end talent (Sundin, McCabe, Roberts, Newy, Mogilny) with no return, so yeah, it is going to take a bunch of years to recover from the massive system-wide talent deficit we found ourselves in.  Wishing we were further ahead doesn't make it so.

How much longer is it going to be fashionable to blame JFJ for the current state of the Leafs?  Burke hasn't exactly strockpiled legitimate talent himself, in case you haven't noticed.  Either in the minors or on the big squad.  Beyond a select few gems, the organization is more or less a mess.  Arguably more so than when JFJ was canned.

Only if you tell me how much longer it will be fashionable to blame the current GM when we don't have a Stanley Cup after just 2-3yrs of service?  It takes leg work and time to build a champion.  Burke has done a lot.  Not everyone is a homerun but we have a ton more usable assets then we ever did with JFJ.

Who said anything about a Stanley Cup?

And saying we have usable assets is great, but I see absolutely no evidence of it.  A few, maybe.  But the idea that we have "a ton" (or even "a ton more") is pretty laughable.  Being a very bad team doesn't automatically means that the future is bright, and in the Leafs' case, right now, it really isn't.

This team wasn't a very bad team for about 1/2 to 2/3 of the season.  At that point the goaltending fell apart and the player's confidence along with it.  So, I don't agree with you that we have a very bad  team.  We have a team that needs to shore up goaltending.  When we have goaltending (not even elite but above average), our defense will look like they learned how to play defense again.

Maybe.  But I saw a team with absolutely terrible defensive coverage - bad positioning, terrible turnovers, bad decisions, weak on the puck, poor passes - making the goalies look bad.

Really, I think both defense and goaltending were well below average, and the forwards were wildly inconsistent.  The Leafs' record appear to agree.

There are plenty more gaping holes on this team than just in goal.

 

[jonlleafs]

He was also employed by the Leafs until immediately before he made that claim.  What else is he supposed to say?

You're right, I'm sure he just made that stuff up.

I didn't say he made it up.  I said wasn't about to say anything else, so you're unlikely to gain any special insight by listening to him.

And anyway, what he said was something like "the Leafs are 3 really good players (including a goalie) away from being a contender."  I can't think of many teams for which that wouldn't be true.

I would say the Islanders, Montreal, maybe Carolina, and Columbus probably aren't 3 players away from being a contender.  When I say contender, I mean a real contender.

 

[Kin]

I'm usually loathe to defend JFJ because he made a lot of bad decisions but a distinction should be made between the team he left and the team Burke inherited. JFJ left behind some good players/prospects. Not great, no, but a lack of greatness isn't something Burke has really addressed.

 

[jonlleafs]

My "best case" scenario is really that we tank this year, sell off Connolly, Lombardi, Armstrong at the deadline, obtain another top 5 pick and reload with the 2014 free agents (hoping there are many).  Maybe by 2016, we will have a decent team.

Been there, did that ...last year .... and the year before that etc etc

We started from a position in which JFJ had traded away a bunch of our first-round picks, we had no prospects, we lost all our top-end talent (Sundin, McCabe, Roberts, Newy, Mogilny) with no return, so yeah, it is going to take a bunch of years to recover from the massive system-wide talent deficit we found ourselves in.  Wishing we were further ahead doesn't make it so.

How much longer is it going to be fashionable to blame JFJ for the current state of the Leafs?  Burke hasn't exactly strockpiled legitimate talent himself, in case you haven't noticed.  Either in the minors or on the big squad.  Beyond a select few gems, the organization is more or less a mess.  Arguably more so than when JFJ was canned.

Only if you tell me how much longer it will be fashionable to blame the current GM when we don't have a Stanley Cup after just 2-3yrs of service?  It takes leg work and time to build a champion.  Burke has done a lot.  Not everyone is a homerun but we have a ton more usable assets then we ever did with JFJ.

Who said anything about a Stanley Cup?

And saying we have usable assets is great, but I see absolutely no evidence of it.  A few, maybe.  But the idea that we have "a ton" (or even "a ton more") is pretty laughable.  Being a very bad team doesn't automatically means that the future is bright, and in the Leafs' case, right now, it really isn't.

This team wasn't a very bad team for about 1/2 to 2/3 of the season.  At that point the goaltending fell apart and the player's confidence along with it.  So, I don't agree with you that we have a very bad  team.  We have a team that needs to shore up goaltending.  When we have goaltending (not even elite but above average), our defense will look like they learned how to play defense again.

Maybe.  But I saw a team with absolutely terrible defensive coverage - bad positioning, terrible turnovers, bad decisions, weak on the puck, poor passes - making the goalies look bad.

Really, I think both defense and goaltending were well below average, and the forwards were wildly inconsistent.  The Leafs' record appear to agree.

There are plenty more gaping holes on this team than just in goal.

Well, those aren't the games I saw at least not all the time.  I saw bad soft goals given up at inopportune times.  Games usually end with our goalies giving up more than 3 goals per game.  At times it was 4-5+ which is unacceptable at the NHL level. 

I attribute it to a chicken-with-his-head-cut-off syndrome.  When the goalie isn't performing well, all the players on the ice (especially the defense) are running around out of position trying to make up for their goalie's inadequacies.  Trying to block shots when they aren't in the right position to do so and deflecting it into our own net.  Quickly rushing the puck out of our end by rimming it around the glass (instead of taking a quick look for a good pass out).  If we get a good solid goalie, it will calm everyone down and they will play their positions.  Just like how Carlyle described Beauchemin when he was traded back to the Ducks.  He said Beauchemin looked like a completely different player.  Like he didn't know how to play.  Took him 3 weeks to settle down and get back to the way he knows how to play.

 

[hockeyfan1]

  If we get a good solid goalie, it will calm everyone down and they will play their positions.  Just like how Carlyle described Beauchemin when he was traded back to the Ducks.  He said Beauchemin looked like a completely different player.  Like he didn't know how to play.  Took him 3 weeks to settle down and get back to the way he knows how to play.

That should be Burke's number one priority.

 

[moon111]

Kessel was 6th overall in scoring.  Phaneuf was 12th among defensemen.  Don't think I've heard a positive comment about either player.  Frankly a player would be crazy to play in Toronto.  Is Burke going to land a UFA?  Only by overpaying.  Canadian teams don't want to trade with the Leafs and end up with a trade backfiring on HNIC every week.  What if Loungo did  really good in Toronto?  Someone in Vancouver would lose their job unless the Leafs overpaid.  Quiet on the Leafs front?  Sometimes the best deals are the ones you never make.

 

[maplesyrup]

Well, I expected something to happen as far as a trade or two in the NHL today.  :-\ Here's hoping for a more eventful tomorrow. 

 

[Redleaf]

Kessel was 6th overall in scoring.  Phaneuf was 12th among defensemen.  Don't think I've heard a positive comment about either player.  Frankly a player would be crazy to play in Toronto.  Is Burke going to land a UFA?  Only by overpaying.  Canadian teams don't want to trade with the Leafs and end up with a trade backfiring on HNIC every week.  What if Loungo did  really good in Toronto?  Someone in Vancouver would lose their job unless the Leafs overpaid.  Quiet on the Leafs front?  Sometimes the best deals are the ones you never make.

Not sure I follow your logic. So Burke shouldn't bother with any trades, because he will overpay?

 

[Sudafederov]

This thread title made me smile.  It reminded me of the thread on the old board:

"People seem to take it easy on Toskala, why? WHY?"

 

[Bender]

This thread title made me smile.  It reminded me of the thread on the old board:

"People seem to take it easy on Toskala, why? WHY?"

People don't like Raycroft. But why?

 

[Sudafederov]

This thread title made me smile.  It reminded me of the thread on the old board:

"People seem to take it easy on Toskala, why? WHY?"

People don't like Raycroft. But why?

LOL. That one was good too.  If there was a "Know Your Meme" wiki for tmlfans.ca, that would definitely be one.

I'm pretty sure Rally Cat would be there too.  Keyboard Cat has nothing on Rally Cat.

 

[bustaheims]

This thread title made me smile.  It reminded me of the thread on the old board:

"People seem to take it easy on Toskala, why? WHY?"

People don't like Raycroft. But why?

NOT SO MUCH

 

[Scrif]

And finally the 'deer in the headlights' was traded. Unfortunately we got an oft-injured 'power fwd' in return...sigh.

It takes a special/grizzled player to play in Toronto. Hopefully JVR has his rubber suit on.

 

[rdowdall]

And finally the 'deer in the headlights' was traded. Unfortunately we got an oft-injured 'power fwd' in return...sigh.

It takes a special/grizzled player to play in Toronto. Hopefully JVR has his rubber suit on.

I misread that at first.  I missed the suit part.  Made me do a double take.

 

[moon111]

Kessel was 6th overall in scoring.  Phaneuf was 12th among defensemen.  Don't think I've heard a positive comment about either player.  Frankly a player would be crazy to play in Toronto.  Is Burke going to land a UFA?  Only by overpaying.  Canadian teams don't want to trade with the Leafs and end up with a trade backfiring on HNIC every week.  What if Loungo did  really good in Toronto?  Someone in Vancouver would lose their job unless the Leafs overpaid.  Quiet on the Leafs front?  Sometimes the best deals are the ones you never make.

Not sure I follow your logic. So Burke shouldn't bother with any trades, because he will overpay?

I just find it ironic that some of the same fans who complain about Burke not signing a big unrestricted free agent are the same fans that chase those unrestricted free-agents away.  I also think teams like Montreal, Winnipeg, Edmonton, and Vancouver would rather deal their players south of the border to avoid a PR nightmare.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I figured this was a good place for this...

Dave Poulin on the Fan590

 

[Bullfrog]

Really enjoyed that interview, thanks.

 

[L K]

It's a good interview but I really don't like how the team continues to rely on trades to make their improvements.  I think I would rather the team use some financial clout rather than trying to make asset for asset trades.  To me the Leafs are still top tier asset poor in the organization and I think it's a quick slope back down to prospect poverty when you try and acquire top level players with a package of players. 

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

Really enjoyed that interview, thanks.

Yeah, he's very forthcoming with the info, isn't he?

 

[Bender]

Really enjoyed that interview, thanks.

Yeah, he's very forthcoming with the info, isn't he?

One of the most interesting interviews in a while! But you know, Burke does everything