All quiet on the Leaf front. But why?

[rdowdall]

And yet Tampa missed the playoffs even WITH Stamkos.  How mind bendingly mad would Leafs fans be if we had that team and still missed?  They blew a season of probably being a contender on not getting a goalie. 

I don't know.  How angry would Leaf fans be with going to the Final Four the year before, then missing the playoffs, but have a clear reason as to why they missed the playoffs which was lack of depth on defence and a goalie who may have actually witnessed the maiden voyage of the Titanic?

Carolina got Staal because they had his brother.  Simple as that.  Plus, the difference between acquiring JVR and Jordan Staal... may not be as big of a gap as you think. 

So when Burke uses a brother to lure another brother to the same team, it makes him a smart GM, but when Rutherford does it, he got lucky?

Its one thing to just keep saying that, and then there's reality.  Look at how long LA took to rebuild.  Perfect example.

They missed the playoffs for 7 years from 2002?03 to 2008?09.  Here is an excerpt from the section "Rebuilding (2002?03 to 2008?09)" from the site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Kings#Rebuilding_.282002.E2.80.9303_to_2008.E2.80.9309.29

"The next two seasons would be major disappointments. The Kings suffered though injuries in both the 2002?03 season and the 2003?04 season as the team failed to make the playoffs"

<snip>

"Just one day after the end of the Kings' 2005?06 regular season, AEG decided to clean house. "

So would the first 4 year not be akin to the JFJ years?  So after they got rid of the management team in 2006, they were back in the playoffs in 2010, which would be four years.  They had Kopitar, Quick, and Doughty as the lynch pins to their team.  If you are going to throw out the JFJ years to support the Leafs, then you have to throw out the 03, 04, 05, 06 years for LA as well, because that was when the team was being run poorly. 

 

[bustaheims]

So when Burke uses a brother to lure another brother to the same team, it makes him a smart GM, but when Rutherford does it, he got lucky?

Burke admits freely that he got lucky when it came to Niedermayer.

 

[Kin]

Man you've been negative lately. We're just complimenting the guy on being well-spoken. Can't we just leave it at that?

Be fair. The post being quoted there says the Leafs brass "really knows what they're doing" and not "are well-spoken". It's not unreasonable to point out the differences there.

 

[rdowdall]

So when Burke uses a brother to lure another brother to the same team, it makes him a smart GM, but when Rutherford does it, he got lucky?

Burke admits freely that he got lucky when it came to Niedermayer.

I never said that he didn't.  I'm just saying that tossing out Carolina's improvement solely because they had one Staal already is undervaluing Jim Rutherford a little because a) there is another Staal in the league, and b) Rutherford actually had to make a trade to get Staal.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

4 years is not a long time.

3 and a half years, really - and the first year and a half were largely spend stripping away the deadwood.

I agree, but I feel that he won't get credit until he's standing on the ice in the ACC, holding the cup above his head, no matter what he's done.

 

[bustaheims]

I never said that he didn't.  I'm just saying that tossing out Carolina's improvement solely because they had one Staal already is undervaluing Jim Rutherford a little because a) there is another Staal in the league, and b) Rutherford actually had to make a trade to get Staal.

Sure, but the cards were heavily stacked in Rutherford's favour and, if he hadn't made the trade this summer, he would have been the odds on favourite to sign Jordan as a UFA next summer. Having Eric on the roster played a significant part in that deal getting done, and, yes, that does mean, to some extent, Rutherford was lucky there. The Jordan Staal bidding was really a two horse race, and the other horse was heading in a different direction.

 

[Kin]

I agree, but I feel that he won't get credit until he's standing on the ice in the ACC, holding the cup above his head, no matter what he's done.

Making the playoffs would probably be a start.

 

[Kin]

The Jordan Staal bidding was really a two horse race, and the other horse was heading in a different direction.

Like the Brad Richards to NYR being inevitable narrative that's emerged that strikes me as being largely speculative.

 

[Zee]

Man you've been negative lately. We're just complimenting the guy on being well-spoken. Can't we just leave it at that?

Be fair. The post being quoted there says the Leafs brass "really knows what they're doing" and not "are well-spoken". It's not unreasonable to point out the differences there.

Exactly. I added the "well spoken" line. The part I took exception to was the 'bright minds that really know what they'd doing'. Based on what we've seen on the ice so far, you really have to question if they actually know what they're doing.

 

[bustaheims]

I agree, but I feel that he won't get credit until he's standing on the ice in the ACC, holding the cup above his head, no matter what he's done.

From some people, absolutely. I think sometimes people forget how big an overhaul he's managed in that time. There are only 2 players left from the Leafs NHL roster that Burke inherited - Grabovski and Kulemin. In his first full season as GM, he removed 8 players from the roster mid-season and only 9 players that saw time on the NHL roster that season are still with the team.

 

[Zee]

4 years is not a long time.

3 and a half years, really - and the first year and a half were largely spend stripping away the deadwood.

I agree, but I feel that he won't get credit until he's standing on the ice in the ACC, holding the cup above his head, no matter what he's done.

That's complete hogwash. If the Leafs were a legitimate playoff team (even this past season) people would be laying off Burke and company. The fact that he makes ridiculous pronouncements like "we could have made the playoffs the last 2 years if I had traded away a bunch of prospects" is so much hot air.  He's still searching for his key components that he said would be in place right away. Remember his initial interviews about "building from the net out". The hallmark of Burke teams were strong goaltending and D?  Where's that?  Surely in 4 years he could have found a goalie and better than bottom 3rd in the league defense.

 

[bustaheims]

Like the Brad Richards to NYR being inevitable narrative that's emerged that strikes me as being largely speculative.

Possibly, though, we have on fairly good authority that the Rangers have put a significant level of emphasis on acquiring Nash since before the trade deadline, and, to extrapolate from Burke's quote about not having a Staal brother, it's certainly not an unreasonable assumption to believe they were the only other team that was really in the race.

 

[Kin]

Seriously, I mean, when is Justin Bieber going to get credit for his genre defining rock-operas. After he actually releases them? Way to be glass half-empty there Bieber-haters.

 

[Kin]

Possibly, though, we have on fairly good authority that the Rangers have put a significant level of emphasis on acquiring Nash since before the trade deadline, and, to extrapolate from Burke's quote about not having a Staal brother, it's certainly not an unreasonable assumption to believe they were the only other team that was really in the race.

Yeah.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

That's complete hogwash. If the Leafs were a legitimate playoff team (even this past season) people would be laying off Burke and company. The fact that he makes ridiculous pronouncements like "we could have made the playoffs the last 2 years if I had traded away a bunch of prospects" is so much hot air.  He's still searching for his key components that he said would be in place right away. Remember his initial interviews about "building from the net out". The hallmark of Burke teams were strong goaltending and D?  Where's that?  Surely in 4 years he could have found a goalie and better than bottom 3rd in the league defense.

Just because GM's say things that they believe doesn't mean that every move will work out. In this landscape, of high priced UFA's, I don't think a lot of them live up to their contracts, everything is based on the scouting and they're hit and miss.

He does believe that he could have traded a bunch of kids and got the team into the playoffs, I believe him when he says that. But I also agree with him that making the playoffs is not the achievement that will make me happy with where this team needs to be, I want the cup also.

I can see the improvement, it doesn't really bother me that others can't, they're the ones that are disgruntled all the time about it. I like watching the development of the kids that are coming in personally. I just don't think all the griping does anything to help out the Leafs, maybe it helps the people that gripe?

 

[rdowdall]

I agree, but I feel that he won't get credit until he's standing on the ice in the ACC, holding the cup above his head, no matter what he's done.

From some people, absolutely. I think sometimes people forget how big an overhaul he's managed in that time. There are only 2 players left from the Leafs NHL roster that Burke inherited - Grabovski and Kulemin. In his first full season as GM, he removed 8 players from the roster mid-season and only 9 players that saw time on the NHL roster that season are still with the team.

After reading that LA Kings wiki, I want Dean Lombardi....

 

[bustaheims]

After reading that LA Kings wiki, I want Dean Lombardi....

The grass is always greener, eh? That very same Dean Lombardi was likely on the verge of losing his job in March.

 

[Kin]

I can see the improvement, it doesn't really bother me that others can't, they're the ones that are disgruntled all the time about it.

Seriously. It's like some people have felt the exact same way about the Leafs for seven straight years. Change it up, people.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I can see the improvement, it doesn't really bother me that others can't, they're the ones that are disgruntled all the time about it.

Seriously. It's like some people have felt the exact same way about the Leafs for seven straight years. Change it up, people.

Yeah those people are the same ones that blame Burke for the entire 40 whatever years it's been, even the full 7 years you're talking about, half of which he wasn't even here for. No amount of your sarcastic humour changes it, I sleep well.

Some need to admit that just because Burke said he was going to try and fast-track the rebuild, didn't mean it was for sure going to happen. He changed the direction a while ago, but we keep hearing, "but he said, he said". I think people need to get behind their team, instead of bashing it constantly, because everything that Burke said didn't happen exactly the way he planned, no amount of griping will change reality.

 

[Kin]

Yeah those people are the same ones that blame Burke for the entire 40 whatever years it's been, even the full 7 years you're talking about, half of which he wasn't even here for. No amount of your sarcastic humour changes it, I sleep well.

Some need to admit that just because Burke said he was going to try and fast-track the rebuild, didn't mean it was for sure going to happen. He changed the direction a while ago, but we keep hearing, "but he said, he said". I think people need to get behind their team, instead of bashing it constantly, because everything that Burke said didn't happen exactly the way he planned.

Yeah, you're right. Uncritical people are just the worst.