Canadiens @ Leafs - May 31st, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590

[Peter D.]

At least they brought in 500 front line workers to confirm the Leafs are dead. 

I stole this FYI.

I?m not that clever.

I liked the line, ?This is the worst thing front line workers have seen all year?, better. 

 

[ZBBM]

The loss tonight was just bad but the way they played the two prior games told us everything we needed to know, again.  Pretenders.

Keefe has pretty much gotten a pass on here because Babcock had gone so rancid but I am still waiting to be impressed by him.  The PP disaster is flat out inexcusable and that ultimately is on the head coach.

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[Guilt Trip]

The loss tonight was just bad but the way they played the two prior games told us everything we needed to know, again.  Pretenders.

Keefe has pretty much gotten a pass on here because Babcock had gone so rancid but I am still waiting to be impressed by him.  The PP disaster is flat out inexcusable and that ultimately is on the head coach.

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I think Keefe did a great job except for making the hard decision on the PP. Afraid to move Marner off PP1. Every player on a PP has to be a threat to score..Hyman and Marner aren't threats. I'll give him credit for moving Rielly off it for Sandin though.

 

[BermudaBudsFan]

This was an inexcusable failure top to bottom.  Every persons job is rightly at risk.

 

[Deebo]

Probably not, no.

I was going for this definition:

adjective

miserably inadequate; of very low standard.
"he's a pathetic excuse for a man"

Oh sure. I was just saying that, you know, our modern ethos has replaced what was once an invocation of sympathy with one of scorn. It can be a cold, cruel world.

I missed you man.

 

[azzurri63]

The tricky thing is you never know which direction a team will go until they take it.  This same core could come back next year, light the world on fire and go on a deep run....or they could continue to struggle to score in the postseason and just be a team that is great in the regular season and never pull through.  Pulling the reset level is a tough call.

So the question is how long do you wait? Marner has shown absolutely nothing in the playoffs to tell me you hold onto him. I don't expect 3 point nights every game but when your basically invisible in the post season somethings wrong. What I see with Mitch and correct me someone if I'm wrong or not seeing something. He can't handle the post season. His game looks like it's being played with fear. Coughing up the puck, making dumb decisions, giveaways, fumbling the puck, PP poor decisions even more and I could go on. He's a totally different player. At times it looks like he's handling a grenade. Why is the question. Almost like he's scared to make a mistake and he keeps making them. Got to stop making excuses for these guys and call it like it is. Every year since 16 and 34 arrival we keep saying give them another year, they are still young, learning the ropes of what it takes to succeed. Hell I agree with that if I was seeing something from them but they were a complete no show this series and in years past. Matthews not so much so but he had to bring it more than he did. So I say make some changes. From management to the coaches as what I seen from Keefe and Malholtra has been garbage coaching the last while. PP was an absolute joke with the talent this team puts out there and can't expect goals all the time but was absolutely brutal and didn't seem like they wanted to change anything up. Completely ridiculous.

 

[Britishbulldog]

That's probably the worst Campbell has ever played in a playoff series...at least I can't remember him playing worse ever before.

The veterans brought in were okay but out of Foligno, Nash, Simmonds, Thornton and Spezza I hope the only one that returns is Spezza but I don't know if he would want to.

Marner is demonstrating that he is terribly overpaid but that makes him unmoveable...reminds of Phaneuf's unmoveable contract.

Loved the additions of Brodie and Bogosian.  Disappointed that Muzzin was hurt again.  Can't believe that Tavares was hurt in the 1st period of the 1st game.

Wow, I am already moving on.  I hope to see you all next season.  Take Care!

 

[wnc096]

The tricky thing is you never know which direction a team will go until they take it.  This same core could come back next year, light the world on fire and go on a deep run....or they could continue to struggle to score in the postseason and just be a team that is great in the regular season and never pull through.  Pulling the reset level is a tough call.

So the question is how long do you wait? Marner has shown absolutely nothing in the playoffs to tell me you hold onto him. I don't expect 3 point nights every game but when your basically invisible in the post season somethings wrong. What I see with Mitch and correct me someone if I'm wrong or not seeing something. He can't handle the post season. His game looks like it's being played with fear. Coughing up the puck, making dumb decisions, giveaways, fumbling the puck, PP poor decisions even more and I could go on. He's a totally different player. At times it looks like he's handling a grenade. Why is the question. Almost like he's scared to make a mistake and he keeps making them. Got to stop making excuses for these guys and call it like it is. Every year since 16 and 34 arrival we keep saying give them another year, they are still young, learning the ropes of what it takes to succeed. Hell I agree with that if I was seeing something from them but they were a complete no show this series and in years past. Matthews not so much so but he had to bring it more than he did. So I say make some changes. From management to the coaches as what I seen from Keefe and Malholtra has been garbage coaching the last while. PP was an absolute joke with the talent this team puts out there and can't expect goals all the time but was absolutely brutal and didn't seem like they wanted to change anything up. Completely ridiculous.

I do agree with you here.  Scarier idea is that Matthews will be half way to UFA status next year...and could be gone in 3 years

 

[Bonsixx]

There is literally one untouchable on this roster, maybe two, because I'd count Nylander.

This is the most humiliating defeat I've seen in 35 years. And most deflating.

That said, if they trade Marner, it better be for similar value and I don't know who that is right now.

But congrats Leafs, you made me so disappointed I posted on this board for the first time in five years to see what the analytics guys have to say.



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[Arn]

So say the decision is that Marner is THE trade top make the change of "the core".

He's obviously massively talented. But his salary might just allow you to replace Andersen in goal and have either someone usurp or at least platoon Campbell.

But it also might let you add more depth and improve the 3rd and 4th lines overall.

Does Matthews score fewer goals without Marner (in the regular season)? Probably but maybe not.

Does the extra depth and goaltending more than make up for a regular season drop in goal totals from Matthews? Probably the question that's hard to answer...

I really like Marner in general. But I can see how there's a potential answer to a big question there...

 

[Courtnall]

The loss tonight was just bad but the way they played the two prior games told us everything we needed to know, again.  Pretenders.

Keefe has pretty much gotten a pass on here because Babcock had gone so rancid but I am still waiting to be impressed by him.  The PP disaster is flat out inexcusable and that ultimately is on the head coach.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

I think Keefe did a great job except for making the hard decision on the PP. Afraid to move Marner off PP1. Every player on a PP has to be a threat to score..Hyman and Marner aren't threats. I'll give him credit for moving Rielly off it for Sandin though.

Ya that coaches challenge didn?t cost us a goal, and then the game and then the series or anything.

 

[Bender]

Again, fair comment.  I can say this ? this was the smoothest path to the final four.  Next year the Northeast is going to be super difficult.

Because if we were depending on an easy path, or even just the easiest path, well, then we probably weren't ready to begin with.

That is a very good point.

 

[dekedastardly]

A large portion of the blame for this should be pinned on the coaching of this team. For how long had the PP suffered?  Their inability to change their strategy and turn it around was a big part of the problem. I'm of the opinion that the entire staff needs axed.

 

[KadriFan]

The teams core was built to excel at pond hockey not playoff hockey.  Its just that simple

 

[herman]

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2021/06/01/game-7-analysis-toronto-maple-leafs-montreal-canadiens/

Literally every lazy narrative the media (and the sunglasses in truck selfie fan base) leveled at Nylander (other than being clueless when stuck in the DZ) has been proven not only categorically false, but directed at the wrong player lol

Led the team in goals and was literally a point per game in these playoffs (official scorers refused to award that 2a for the forecheck deflection leading to Spezza?s goal).

 

[L K]

The loss tonight was just bad but the way they played the two prior games told us everything we needed to know, again.  Pretenders.

Keefe has pretty much gotten a pass on here because Babcock had gone so rancid but I am still waiting to be impressed by him.  The PP disaster is flat out inexcusable and that ultimately is on the head coach.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

I think Keefe did a great job except for making the hard decision on the PP. Afraid to move Marner off PP1. Every player on a PP has to be a threat to score..Hyman and Marner aren't threats. I'll give him credit for moving Rielly off it for Sandin though.

I felt he was far too rigid in the postseason.  The Leafs never really adjusted to what Montreal was doing.  Other than putting Sandin on the PP1 which was a pre-playoffs move they didn?t really do much other than inserting guys for injuries and swapping out Sandin for Dermott that one game. 

I think he should face criticism for not being about to design a strategy to get Matthews open whether that was a way to get him more shifts away from Danault or by swapping up his lines

 

[Guilt Trip]

The loss tonight was just bad but the way they played the two prior games told us everything we needed to know, again.  Pretenders.

Keefe has pretty much gotten a pass on here because Babcock had gone so rancid but I am still waiting to be impressed by him.  The PP disaster is flat out inexcusable and that ultimately is on the head coach.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

I think Keefe did a great job except for making the hard decision on the PP. Afraid to move Marner off PP1. Every player on a PP has to be a threat to score..Hyman and Marner aren't threats. I'll give him credit for moving Rielly off it for Sandin though.

I felt he was far too rigid in the postseason.  The Leafs never really adjusted to what Montreal was doing.  Other than putting Sandin on the PP1 which was a pre-playoffs move they didn?t really do much other than inserting guys for injuries and swapping out Sandin for Dermott that one game. 

I think he should face criticism for not being about to design a strategy to get Matthews open whether that was a way to get him more shifts away from Danault or by swapping up his lines

That's a fair point. The thing is though, they got lots of looks last night but Hyman and Marner's inability to bury one ultimately killed us.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I felt he was far too rigid in the postseason.  The Leafs never really adjusted to what Montreal was doing.  Other than putting Sandin on the PP1 which was a pre-playoffs move they didn?t really do much other than inserting guys for injuries and swapping out Sandin for Dermott that one game. 

I think he should face criticism for not being about to design a strategy to get Matthews open whether that was a way to get him more shifts away from Danault or by swapping up his lines

1. Never split up the Matthews/Marner combo at 5-on-5 despite it not working all series. If the idea was they were trying super-duper hard and Montreal was just shutting them down then you still need to change things up to get at least one of them away from Montreal's top defensive unit

2. Baffling PP personnel decisions including putting Matthews in non-shooting positions frequently, having set-ups that put the puck on Marner's ineffective stick, having Thornton on PP1 early on

3. That terrible, awful coaches challenge

4. Playing Nylander 17 minutes or less in the first 4 games despite the fact that he was clearly our best player

5. Spezza deserved more minutes too

6. Putting Foligno back into the line-up at 2C despite the fact that he was very clearly labouring on the ice (an observation that was even made at practice)

7. Thornton should have been scratched at some point. I love the guy. You probably wouldn't find a bigger Thornton fan on these boards than me. But I said at the start if he isn't doing anything early he's gotta go. Arguably ditto for Simmonds too. Admittedly some injuries shallowed up our depth but Brooks and/or Nash could have still gone in

8. For anyone who thinks Campbell struggled in the last few games, Freddy should have started game 4. This isn't some hindsight belief, I said a few times I thought he would get game 4 and I'm hardly his biggest supporter. It would have been completely reasonable for Keefe to start him there and if he played well he would have been an option for game 6 or 7

At the end of the day our best players still need to be our best players... and they just weren't, so far from putting all the blame on Keefe here. But he didn't have a great series either, which is super unfortunate because he has done good stuff here.

 

[L K]

I'll give Keefe credit for finally playing Nylander more in Game 7.  Not sure why he wasn't getting that TOI bump earlier in the series.

The one I really don't understand was Spezza.  The guy has been willing to go through brick walls for the team in the last two years.  Why did Wayne Simmonds average more ice-time than Spezza  in the series.  As much as his defensive play can be questionable...why did Galchenyuk play less than Wayne Simmonds when we were trying to come back in a game we were losing?

I get the concept of not sitting a guy like Joe Thornton because this very well could have been his last NHL hockey game but Simmonds was just downright bad in this series.  The only things I remember him doing in this series is getting hit hard twice in Game 6.

I might even go as far as to say that sitting Sandin in retrospect was probably the wrong move.  He had a good Game 3 and sitting didn't really seem to do him a lot of good.  I get why they made the move but in hindsight I wonder if that messed with his confidence coming out of the lineup after coming off a solid game. 

Maybe small take on Engvall who had a really nice stretch of play to end the year.  The week off between the end of the season and the first game probably negated any residual "hot streak" though.

It's amazing how quickly 7 games can change your opinion of a player though.  I was absolutely ok with losing Kerfoot in the expansion draft to free up the money he has on the cap. He had a really solid year and stepped up in the postseason.  It's going to suck losing him.

 

[rdowdall]

I'll give Keefe credit for finally playing Nylander more in Game 7.  Not sure why he wasn't getting that TOI bump earlier in the series.

The only I really don't understand was Spezza.  The guy has been willing to go through brick walls for the team in the last two years.  Why did Wayne Simmonds average more ice-time than Spezza  in the series.  As much as his defensive play can be questionable...why did Galchenyuk play less than Wayne Simmonds when we were trying to come back in a game we were losing?

I get the concept of not sitting a guy like Joe Thornton because this very well could have been his last NHL hockey game but Simmonds was just downright bad in this series.  The only things I remember him doing in this series is getting hit hard twice in Game 6.

I think the Leafs to develop a power forward internally, or get one that has the ability to be around longer.  They also need to beef up a hound line.  The third line was good in spurts, especially when Hyman was there.  But they need a line in the playoffs that can go out and tire the other team.  They have glimpses of that, but it just wasn't sustained past game 4. 

I have hopes for a Mikheyev - Hallander - Anderson line in the future.  A line that can really hem in a team with some speed and tenacity.  I see a future third line with Amirov or Robertson on it providing some secondary scoring and being a legitimate threat to score.

They are thin on the wings for the type of players they need.  They need another Hyman type to go with Tavares and Nylander.  Maybe it's Robertson. 

So it sucks that they lost in embarrassing fashion, again.  But they are still building.  It's not as bad as the Kessel years, or the years immediately after the lock-out.  If this team learns to win in the playoffs, they should have the players to make a couple of cup runs.

I just keep waiting for Matthews to dominate a playoff series, and then multiple playoff series.  Kind of like Lemieux back in the day.