Clarkson for horton

[maplesyrup]

"no one" haha.

Cox or Simmons said basically the exact same thing a couple of weeks ago too.

Don't I remember a collective groan when they signed Clarkson?

I think opinion was sort of divided, like anything else. I didn't like the term/cost but Clarkson was billed for a long time as being sort of the perfect 3rd line player so I didn't hate the idea that they signed him right away.

I think the split was between those that thought he might do some good for too much money vs the group that thought he'd do nothing good for too much money. I suppose I could go read some old threads, but I'm too mind-boggled right now for that.

Here's the Clarkson signing thread, for those who are interested:
http://www.tmlfans.ca/community/index.php?topic=1784.15

Uh, that's embarrassing.  :-[

 

[Kin]

I don't love the term or the price but....you know if you'd ask me what my ideal addition to the Leafs would be outside of a top center I'd have said a winger who adds genuine physicality and can score some gritty goals. If Clarkson can do that I can live with it, I suppose.

That, my friends, is some pro-level CYA.

 

[ZBBM]

I don't love the term or the price but....you know if you'd ask me what my ideal addition to the Leafs would be outside of a top center I'd have said a winger who adds genuine physicality and can score some gritty goals. If Clarkson can do that I can live with it, I suppose.

That, my friends, is some pro-level CYA.

Props to you, my friend. 

My own response (oh yeah, I raced down the thread to see it) was also pretty noncommittal.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

If he does miraculously return he's better the better player, so there's that.

 

[Bender]

There was a lot more back and forth on that signing than I thought. I think some of us rationalised the trade and hoped it would work out. But to some extent this is like Raycroft: Player has a couple of good seasons, loses form, gets acquired in the hopes they can turn it around.

This isn't a strategy that can work unless you're paying bargain prices or the players can be redeemed through strong advanced stats that just didn't project through in terms of points in the system they were playing.

 

[herman]

This is so awesome I don't even mind that we hurt our tank chances.

 

[Champ Kind]

Anybody who thinks Nonis should get praised for this should think again.  All he did was take his own terrible financial commitment and kick it upstairs onto the MLSE books.  If I were Shanahan I'd be saying, "Thanks for getting rid of Clarkson.  You're fired."

I agree that his "great move" here is largely facilitated by MLSE's financial power but I don't think we can pretend that the decision to sign Clarkson was entirely on his shoulders either. There was internal pressure to improve and Clarkson was a highly sought UFA.

Remember, things "improved" so much under Shanahan that they then went out and tried to sign Bolland to what might have been an even worse contract.

Well, that tells you more about Shanahan than Nonis I guess.

No way should this be seen as saving Nonis' job.  $26M for nothing is not good management.

EDIT: and it wasn't largely facilitated, it was TOTALLY facilitated.

So, I can completely understand your contempt for the Clarkson deal given the salary cap implications.  But going on and on and on about the waste of MLSE dollars makes me ask the question: Larry Tannenbaum, is that you?

 

[Peter D.]

I was out the time me the deal was announced and a buddy texted asking why the Leafs would trade Clarkson for a guy with a 90-year old body. LOL. I never would have guessed Horton until I saw it.

Can't believe Nonis wiped Clarkson's cap completely off the books. That alone warrants him more time from my perspective.

 

[ZBBM]

Anybody who thinks Nonis should get praised for this should think again.  All he did was take his own terrible financial commitment and kick it upstairs onto the MLSE books.  If I were Shanahan I'd be saying, "Thanks for getting rid of Clarkson.  You're fired."

I agree that his "great move" here is largely facilitated by MLSE's financial power but I don't think we can pretend that the decision to sign Clarkson was entirely on his shoulders either. There was internal pressure to improve and Clarkson was a highly sought UFA.

Remember, things "improved" so much under Shanahan that they then went out and tried to sign Bolland to what might have been an even worse contract.

Well, that tells you more about Shanahan than Nonis I guess.

No way should this be seen as saving Nonis' job.  $26M for nothing is not good management.

EDIT: and it wasn't largely facilitated, it was TOTALLY facilitated.

So, I can completely understand your contempt for the Clarkson deal given the salary cap implications.  But going on and on and on about the waste of MLSE dollars makes me ask the question: Larry Tannenbaum, is that you?

I'm not going to bother spinning out this line of argument in detail, but I think you can make a pretty good case that being able to use MLSE wealth as a sinkhole for bad management decisions actually just begets more bad management decisions. 

 

[Champ Kind]

Didn't want to make this post longer than necessary so did not quote.

Look, ZZ-B, I don't disagree that Nonis likely deserves to be canned.  I just don't believe shedding a tear for MLSE is warranted.  I mean, no one is planning to crowdfund for the Steinbrenners, are they?

I also have to disagree that poor management decisions beget future poor decisions.  This isn't a one man show, ala Jerry Jones, Hank Steinbrenner, or the Little Ceasars empire in Detroit.  MLSE is a ruthless corporate empire and, I would suggest, they will make sure someone is accountable.

 

[Derk]

Wow. I am... stunned. I never expected that this day would come, but here we are.

 

[Joe S.]

It wouldn't surprise me if somehow the NHL finds a way to fine the leafs for this.

 

[Joe S.]

Clarkson apparently has some pretty severe flaws. Not liking this signing, overpaid by $2 million, and the length is absolutely atrocious.

So what would they be or are we just going with "apparently"?

People who have seen him play a lot (me, for one) are talking about what a good pickup this is even if its an expensive one.  This guy brings far far more to the table than just the goals he has produced in the last 2 years.

Doesn't skate well - very awkward stride, always falling down, doesn't pass and opts to throw the puck on net, not a good defensive player.

Ah the wise words of the long departed jalili.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

It wouldn't surprise me if somehow the NHL finds a way to fine the leafs for this.

I was thinking about this too. They were pretty po'ed when we essentially bought a pick from Tampa for taking an injured Olaf Kolzig, and he had an expiring contract. Then we got dinged for some funny business regarding the Frogren contract, but a lot of people thought the NHL had that trade in mind when the punishment came down.

 

[Highlander]

WOW  Time for another Valium and a shot of Scotch. Perfect. Well done Nonis. We will keep you for the time being.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Remember, folks, "Clarkson has better hands than Gary Roberts by a wide margin".  Oh, man, that one still cracks me up.

I miss that guy.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

It wouldn't surprise me if somehow the NHL finds a way to fine the leafs for this.

I was thinking about this too. They were pretty po'ed when we essentially bought a pick from Tampa for taking an injured Olaf Kolzig, and he had an expiring contract. Then we got dinged for some funny business regarding the Frogren contract, but a lot of people thought the NHL had that trade in mind when the punishment came down.

Maybe more likely if the Leafs had thrown an incentive like a pick to Columbus to make the deal?  I personally probably would have if I were GM.

 

[Kin]

Maybe more likely if the Leafs had thrown an incentive like a pick to Columbus to make the deal?  I personally probably would have if I were GM.

That raises an interesting question. It sounds like the Blue Jackets were all in on this. Could you imagine if Nonis asked for a 7th to boot? And, if he'd got it, how great that would have been?

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Remember, folks, "Clarkson has better hands than Gary Roberts by a wide margin".  Oh, man, that one still cracks me up.

I miss that guy.

I'd be more comfortable saying Clarkson has better hands than Stephen Hawking by a small margin.

 

[Highlander]

Nik for such a pragmatic guy you are dreaming on the 7th. Can't blame U as we are all on cloud cuckoo land.  Just glad we got rid of Dave C.