Contracts for the Big-3

[CarltonTheBear]

One thing to keep in mind: Nylander is technically a free agent right now. That means his agent is allowed to talk to other teams about a contract. So let's say Carolina wants to acquire him in a trade, there's nothing stopping them from discussing what it would take to get Nylander signed with his agent before a deal with Toronto is made. So I'd guess if Nylander is dealt then the groundwork for a contract with his new team would essentially already be completed.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

One thing to keep in mind: Nylander is technically a free agent right now. That means his agent is allowed to talk to other teams about a contract. So let's say Carolina wants to acquire him in a trade, there's nothing stopping them from discussing what it would take to get Nylander signed with his agent before a deal with Toronto is made. So I'd guess if Nylander is dealt then the groundwork for a contract with his new team would essentially already be completed.

Right, and we haven't heard a peep about either a possible trade, or a possible offer sheet.  Which leads me to believe other teams have made the initial phone call to Nylander's agent to find out their price, and subsequently hung up the phone. 

 

[Kin]

Right, and we haven't heard a peep about either a possible trade, or a possible offer sheet.  Which leads me to believe other teams have made the initial phone call to Nylander's agent to find out their price, and subsequently hung up the phone.

Or, alternately, Dubas isn't interested in a trade and would just match any offer sheet within reason.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Right, and we haven't heard a peep about either a possible trade, or a possible offer sheet.  Which leads me to believe other teams have made the initial phone call to Nylander's agent to find out the their price, and subsequently hung up the phone. 

Well we haven't heard about an offer sheet because those more or less just don't exist.

We haven't heard about a possible trade because Dubas hasn't decided to move him yet. But we have had reports of multiple teams calling Dubas to inquire about him. And if they're calling Dubas odds are they called Nylander's agent first.

 

[cabber24]

I still don't think Nylander has any leverage at all besides not playing. The fact that this continues I think it starts to sway towards the Leafs bullying Nylander. All he could do is sit out, eventually, that will no longer be an option and he'll have to sign something whether he likes it or not. I can't imagine he would elect not to play.

 

[Kin]

I still don't think Nylander has any leverage at all besides not playing.

That feels like saying that the Leafs don't have any leverage besides the money they're paying. Not playing is the only leverage any player ever has. Lots of them still sign deals they're happy with.

 

[Bates]

Players often have leverage such as UFA, being team's best player, one year to UFA,  being Russian with large KHL offer,  Offer Sheet threat, and so on. Nylander doesn't have any of those. 

 

[Kin]

Players often have leverage such as UFA, being team's best player, one year to UFA,  being Russian with large KHL offer,  Offer Sheet threat, and so on. Nylander doesn't have any of those.

In all of those situations the only way it has a inflationary effect on a player's value(and acts as "leverage") is if the team thinks the player not playing for them, whether in an immediate sense or in near future, is a possibility or likelihood. So it's still a question of playing/not playing.

 

[Zee]

That's a large gap.  I believe Dubas is smart enough not to give Nylander away in a bad trade (Larsson for Hall), so his ask in a trade would most likely be a hindrance to a deal when you consider what you pointed out that a team might have to give Nylander what he wants in a contract.

At some point though, and that point is coming up, it's not a question about whether or not Dubas is smart, it's about having to make a decision and if the decisions Dubas has are either give Nylander the contract he wants, trade Nylander for the best he can do or let Nylander sit out the season then there's no "good" choice there. Then it's just about the least bad option and that may be door #2.

The least bad option might be to let him sit the entire season.  You don't want to trade him for the sake of trading him.  Maybe more options open up in the summer around the draft and you get a better deal then.  Overall this entire situation stinks.

 

[Kin]

The least bad option might be to let him sit the entire season.

The gamble there is that somehow the trade options get better enough to justify going through an entire season without either Nylander or whatever Nylander could fetch in a trade right now.

To be honest though, I don't think the trades getting better at all is particularly likely and definitely not to that magnitude. It's just as likely that some teams are less enthused because Nylander will miss a year of NHL development.

 

[Arn]

Sitting out a full season is going to impact in all sorts of negative ways - less trade value for the team in future and likely a lower contract when eventually he does sign if he has an empty year with no further evidence to back up his claims for the higher salary.

And everyone will think he's a bit of a tool.

 

[Bates]

I highly doubt the Leaf's want to risk all 3 being unsigned next July 1st. I think that would be a situation ripe for offer sheets.

That's a large gap.  I believe Dubas is smart enough not to give Nylander away in a bad trade (Larsson for Hall), so his ask in a trade would most likely be a hindrance to a deal when you consider what you pointed out that a team might have to give Nylander what he wants in a contract.

At some point though, and that point is coming up, it's not a question about whether or not Dubas is smart, it's about having to make a decision and if the decisions Dubas has are either give Nylander the contract he wants, trade Nylander for the best he can do or let Nylander sit out the season then there's no "good" choice there. Then it's just about the least bad option and that may be door #2.

The least bad option might be to let him sit the entire season.  You don't want to trade him for the sake of trading him.  Maybe more options open up in the summer around the draft and you get a better deal then.  Overall this entire situation stinks.

 

[Kin]

And everyone will think he's a bit of a tool.

I mean, I won't for the record. If he doesn't like a 6 or 7 year final offer, or even a 3 or 4 year one, why should he take it?

 

[Bates]

Of course It's about playing but Matthews being available for offer sheet or sitting out has a lot more leverage than a Nylander to force a deal. Nylander is not good enough to force the Leafs, That's the simple truth.

Players often have leverage such as UFA, being team's best player, one year to UFA,  being Russian with large KHL offer,  Offer Sheet threat, and so on. Nylander doesn't have any of those.

In all of those situations the only way it has a inflationary effect on a player's value(and acts as "leverage") is if the team thinks the player not playing for them, whether in an immediate sense or in near future, is a possibility or likelihood. So it's still a question of playing/not playing.

 

[Kin]

In all of those situations the only way it has a inflationary effect on a player's value(and acts as "leverage") is if the team thinks the player not playing for them, whether in an immediate sense or in near future, is a possibility or likelihood. So it's still a question of playing/not playing.

I don't think we need to slow things down to the point where it needs to be said that how good a player is plays a role in how much a team values him.

Beyond that, I think it's all relative to the ask. If Matthews next year decides he wants the max and isn't moving off of it I'm sure some people will be in here saying he's not even as good as Tavares.

 

[cabber24]

I still don't think Nylander has any leverage at all besides not playing.

That feels like saying that the Leafs don't have any leverage besides the money they're paying. Not playing is the only leverage any player ever has. Lots of them still sign deals they're happy with.

Like I said, come Nov 30 his leverage is gone.

 

[Kin]

Hey man, in a billion years the sun will burn out and everyone's leverage will be gone.

 

[Bates]

People here can say whatever they want but if Matthews Isn't signed on July 1st I'm fairly confident we will see an offer sheet. And the pressure on the Leaf's on that date will be significantly greater than right now. 

In all of those situations the only way it has a inflationary effect on a player's value(and acts as "leverage") is if the team thinks the player not playing for them, whether in an immediate sense or in near future, is a possibility or likelihood. So it's still a question of playing/not playing.

I don't think we need to slow things down to the point where it needs to be said that how good a player is plays a role in how much a team values him.

Beyond that, I think it's all relative to the ask. If Matthews next year decides he wants the max and isn't moving off of it I'm sure some people will be in here saying he's not even as good as Tavares.

 

[Kin]

People here can say whatever they want but if Matthews Isn't signed on July 1st I'm fairly confident we will see an offer sheet. And the pressure on the Leaf's on that date will be significantly greater than right now.

If Matthews is unsigned on July 1st then pretty clearly he can't get the Leafs to sign whatever deal he wants them to so, again, it's still relative.

 

[Bates]

That's not exactly how it works Nik.

People here can say whatever they want but if Matthews Isn't signed on July 1st I'm fairly confident we will see an offer sheet. And the pressure on the Leaf's on that date will be significantly greater than right now.

If Matthews is unsigned on July 1st then pretty clearly he can't get the Leafs to sign whatever deal he wants them to so, again, it's still relative.