Contracts for the Big-3

[Frank E]

I think the other GMs are actually more interested in Dubas 'winning' this impasse than in acquiring Nylander because this is an inflection point in the second contracts of 2nd tier superstars that they are bound to draft at some point or another (and vice versa for players/agents).

This isn?t worth arguing about but I don?t think the ?average? GM should care. Because the cap is fixed and equal across teams, paying more to this class of player simply means paying less to some other class of player.  GMs that have one or more players that compare well with Nylander will hope he gets a low salary; those that don?t will hope he gets a high salary. (If every GM has a player like Nylander and a similar amount of spare cap space then it doesn?t matter what he makes because no team gains/loses any competitive advantage vs the others.)

I think an argument could be made that you want to avoid basing long-term commitments on short track records.

There's more risk attached there, so I can see GM/ownership being a little apprehensive...but you're right in that there's still a fixed amount per season that can be spent on players, regardless.

 

[Bill_Berg]

Three days. Something is going to happen! I'm excited.

 

[Kin]

-I'd guess the sell of the PA would be that if you DID have a seriously antagonistic negotiation, and the player needed to go beyond Dec 1, it's in everyone's interest that the teams can't break the player and forcing them to sign a deal seriously against the players interest, which then becomes precedent for future arbitration and negotiation.

I think that's sort of the problem. I think there are a lot of players who  would probably resent being asked to subsidize a guy like Nylander who has probably been offered various contracts that, while not ideal as far as he's concerned, certainly wouldn't be seen as an insult or something that mandated going to the mattresses over. I don't think there are enough nasty contract negotiations where teams are offering something that really mandates a year long holdout for this to be a pressing concern.

Also, while a player might not be getting paid during these negotiations I assume that as a member of the PA they're still getting their share of the licensing money. That would probably keep the lights on for most guys.

 

[IJustLurkHere]

-I'd guess the sell of the PA would be that if you DID have a seriously antagonistic negotiation, and the player needed to go beyond Dec 1, it's in everyone's interest that the teams can't break the player and forcing them to sign a deal seriously against the players interest, which then becomes precedent for future arbitration and negotiation.

I think that's sort of the problem. I think there are a lot of players who  would probably resent being asked to subsidize a guy like Nylander who has probably been offered various contracts that, while not ideal as far as he's concerned, certainly wouldn't be seen as an insult or something that mandated going to the mattresses over. I don't think there are enough nasty contract negotiations where teams are offering something that really mandates a year long holdout for this to be a pressing concern.

Also, while a player might not be getting paid during these negotiations I assume that as a member of the PA they're still getting their share of the licensing money. That would probably keep the lights on for most guys.

I don't think where Nylander is at right now represents "going to the mattresses" though (nice line), as it sounds like (touch wood) things are going to get resolved. Where it seems to be with Nylander is that a ~$300k difference over ~6 years is ~$1.8 million, and that's worth taking some time to get right. I don't expect the players to jump into an idea like this to save Willy Nylander, I'd expect them to want to put themselves in the best negotiating position they can. "Going to the mattresses" will be if we get to Dec 2 and it comes out they were actually $3M apart and the Leafs were trying to get an 8 year $4M per kind of deal.

I assume most of them won't starve after 3 years of ELC money, but if you don't have the wherewithal of Nylander, you don't want to have to sacrifice $1.8million because you managed your cashflow like an 18 year old instead of an accountant.

 

[Zee]

Three days. Something is going to happen! I'm excited.

Elliot Friedman said he thinks it's the end for Nylander in Toronto. That even if he signs he'll be traded by the draft. Don't shoot messenger

 

[Highlander]

Three days. Something is going to happen! I'm excited.

Elliot Friedman said he thinks it's the end for Nylander in Toronto. That even if he signs he'll be traded by the draft. Don't shoot messenger

And if he plays half the way the Norse God thinks he can, we will receive a kings ransom in Draft picks and prospects. Cue the Dr. Evil laugh track.

 

[Kin]

I assume most of them won't starve after 3 years of ELC money, but if you don't have the wherewithal of Nylander, you don't want to have to sacrifice $1.8million because you managed your cashflow like an 18 year old instead of an accountant.

Well, no, you may not. But it's a pretty tall order to go to the union and say "Hey guys, we should kick together so that guys who mismanage their money can negotiate 45 million dollar deals instead of 42 million dollar deals".

 

[Bender]

Three days. Something is going to happen! I'm excited.

Elliot Friedman said he thinks it's the end for Nylander in Toronto. That even if he signs he'll be traded by the draft. Don't shoot messenger

Not directed to you, but how does that make any sense? Nylander asks for a trade because both camps are dug in? Because I don't see a reason why Dubas would trade Nylander just because negotiations weren't easy with Lewis Gross.

 

[sickbeast]

Three days. Something is going to happen! I'm excited.

Elliot Friedman said he thinks it's the end for Nylander in Toronto. That even if he signs he'll be traded by the draft. Don't shoot messenger

Not directed to you, but how does that make any sense? Nylander asks for a trade because both camps are dug in? Because I don't see a reason why Dubas would trade Nylander just because negotiations weren't easy with Lewis Gross.

Addition by subtraction.  The team is playing better without him.  Quite frankly I think the Leafs would be a much better team overall if they parlayed Nylander into some very good defensive help.  Very good being the operative words.  It would have to be the right trade.  But I would get rid of him in a heartbeat, personally.  There is something to be said for team chemistry IMO.  While what Nylander has done is certainly his right and I don?t blame him for it, I do feel that management probabbly looks poorly upon it.  At the end of the day, Nylander has hurt the team with his little protest.  There is no way around that.  And one could argue and say that it?s management?s fault, which could well be true to one extent or another.  But that?s not how management is going to look at it.  They have a team to run here.  And I don?t think they?re going to tolerate players who are ?sticking it to the man? the way Nylander has been.  It sets the wrong tone for the culture of the organization IMO.  I would have him gone like yesterday?s business if I were in charge, personally.  But that?s just how I see it.  I am not clairvoyant.  I?m just quite good at understanding people.

 

[Bender]

Three days. Something is going to happen! I'm excited.

Elliot Friedman said he thinks it's the end for Nylander in Toronto. That even if he signs he'll be traded by the draft. Don't shoot messenger

Not directed to you, but how does that make any sense? Nylander asks for a trade because both camps are dug in? Because I don't see a reason why Dubas would trade Nylander just because negotiations weren't easy with Lewis Gross.

Addition by subtraction.  The team is playing better without him.  Quite frankly I think the Leafs would be a much better team overall if they parlayed Nylander into some very good defensive help.  Very good being the operative words.  It would have to be the right trade.  But I would get rid of him in a heartbeat, personally.  There is something to be said for team chemistry IMO.  While what Nylander has done is certainly his right and I don?t blame him for it, I do feel that management probabbly looks poorly upon it.  At the end of the day, Nylander has hurt the team with his little protest.  There is no way around that.  And one could argue and say that it?s management?s fault, which could well be true to one extent or another.  But that?s not how management is going to look at it.  They have a team to run here.  And I don?t think they?re going to tolerate players who are ?sticking it to the man? the way Nylander has been.  It sets the wrong tone for the culture of the organization IMO.  I would have him gone like yesterday?s business if I were in charge, personally.  But that?s just how I see it.  I am not clairvoyant.  I?m just quite good at understanding people.

Everyone is tradable for the right asset coming back, I mean people saying he's  traded by the draft would go completely against Dubas' thinking. He will be traded when the right trade presents itself, not some arbitrary time frame.

Also how much of what has gone on is the agent? Or his father or whatever? Like for certain things that are out of my expertise I defer to experts who have a fiduciary duty toward me like my doctor or a good lawyer, realtor etc. A lot of the time it ends up being "what do you think it best?" I can see that being the case. It's possible Nylander is pulling the strings here but I'm not 100% sure anyone is being vilified by either party. I think this is the media's imagination going wild.

 

[Zee]

Three days. Something is going to happen! I'm excited.

Elliot Friedman said he thinks it's the end for Nylander in Toronto. That even if he signs he'll be traded by the draft. Don't shoot messenger

Not directed to you, but how does that make any sense? Nylander asks for a trade because both camps are dug in? Because I don't see a reason why Dubas would trade Nylander just because negotiations weren't easy with Lewis Gross.

Addition by subtraction.  The team is playing better without him.  Quite frankly I think the Leafs would be a much better team overall if they parlayed Nylander into some very good defensive help.  Very good being the operative words.  It would have to be the right trade.  But I would get rid of him in a heartbeat, personally.  There is something to be said for team chemistry IMO.  While what Nylander has done is certainly his right and I don?t blame him for it, I do feel that management probabbly looks poorly upon it.  At the end of the day, Nylander has hurt the team with his little protest.  There is no way around that.  And one could argue and say that it?s management?s fault, which could well be true to one extent or another.  But that?s not how management is going to look at it.  They have a team to run here.  And I don?t think they?re going to tolerate players who are ?sticking it to the man? the way Nylander has been.  It sets the wrong tone for the culture of the organization IMO.  I would have him gone like yesterday?s business if I were in charge, personally.  But that?s just how I see it.  I am not clairvoyant.  I?m just quite good at understanding people.

Everyone is tradable for the right asset coming back, I mean people saying he's  traded by the draft would go completely against Dubas' thinking. He will be traded when the right trade presents itself, not some arbitrary time frame.

Also how much of what has gone on is the agent? Or his father or whatever? Like for certain things that are out of my expertise I defer to experts who have a fiduciary duty toward me like my doctor or a good lawyer, realtor etc. A lot of the time it ends up being "what do you think it best?" I can see that being the case. It's possible Nylander is pulling the strings here but I'm not 100% sure anyone is being vilified by either party. I think this is the media's imagination going wild.

I mean there's so much season left. What if Nylander comes back, puts up huge numbers and is even better in the playoffs? Would anyone even remember this?  Way too early to start giving these type of hot takes but Elliot wants Twitter action so he'll get it

 

[ZBBM]

I am ready, so ready, for this to be oh-vuh.

 

[sickbeast]

Three days. Something is going to happen! I'm excited.

Elliot Friedman said he thinks it's the end for Nylander in Toronto. That even if he signs he'll be traded by the draft. Don't shoot messenger

Not directed to you, but how does that make any sense? Nylander asks for a trade because both camps are dug in? Because I don't see a reason why Dubas would trade Nylander just because negotiations weren't easy with Lewis Gross.

Addition by subtraction.  The team is playing better without him.  Quite frankly I think the Leafs would be a much better team overall if they parlayed Nylander into some very good defensive help.  Very good being the operative words.  It would have to be the right trade.  But I would get rid of him in a heartbeat, personally.  There is something to be said for team chemistry IMO.  While what Nylander has done is certainly his right and I don?t blame him for it, I do feel that management probabbly looks poorly upon it.  At the end of the day, Nylander has hurt the team with his little protest.  There is no way around that.  And one could argue and say that it?s management?s fault, which could well be true to one extent or another.  But that?s not how management is going to look at it.  They have a team to run here.  And I don?t think they?re going to tolerate players who are ?sticking it to the man? the way Nylander has been.  It sets the wrong tone for the culture of the organization IMO.  I would have him gone like yesterday?s business if I were in charge, personally.  But that?s just how I see it.  I am not clairvoyant.  I?m just quite good at understanding people.

Everyone is tradable for the right asset coming back, I mean people saying he's  traded by the draft would go completely against Dubas' thinking. He will be traded when the right trade presents itself, not some arbitrary time frame.

Also how much of what has gone on is the agent? Or his father or whatever? Like for certain things that are out of my expertise I defer to experts who have a fiduciary duty toward me like my doctor or a good lawyer, realtor etc. A lot of the time it ends up being "what do you think it best?" I can see that being the case. It's possible Nylander is pulling the strings here but I'm not 100% sure anyone is being vilified by either party. I think this is the media's imagination going wild.

I mean there's so much season left. What if Nylander comes back, puts up huge numbers and is even better in the playoffs? Would anyone even remember this?  Way too early to start giving these type of hot takes but Elliot wants Twitter action so he'll get it

Good point.  Sadly I don?t think Nylander will make it to the end of the season as a Leaf.

 

[Kin]

It's possible Nylander is pulling the strings here but I'm not 100% sure anyone is being vilified by either party. I think this is the media's imagination going wild.

It really doesn't even make sense in a practical way. I've said something to this effect before but Nylander isn't on the Maple Leafs. He's a free agent. The Maple Leafs are trying to sign him. It's in their interest to sign him. Ultimately, any decision to sign with the Maple Leafs is Nylander's.

Looking at what Nylander is doing as "hurting the team" or bad for the chemistry of the team is like if San Jose was upset with Tavares because he didn't sign there. Some of us here might look at the distinction between being a RFA and someone sitting out a contract as meaningless but I'm pretty sure the players understand that guys without contracts aren't obligated to them.

 

[cabber24]

The Big 3... what about the other not-so-big-but-still-biggish-3: Kappy, Johnsson, and Gardiner? Gardiner is probably a 6-7M player somewhere... not here. Johnsson and Kappy are raising there stock with each passing day.

Why is Dubas not proactive on any of these guys? We're supposed to be awesome this year so it's no surprise a lot of players are putting up big numbers.

Let's load up this year it may be our best roster we'll ever have.

 

[herman]

Just about everyone past a certain skill threshold has been posting boosted numbers this season (except for Jack Eichel, who is shooting at a slumping Zach Hyman percentage, but delivering assists at nearly Marner levels -- Hi Jeff Skinner!).

Goalie equipment changed this past off-season.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1068188841268305920

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1068188841268305920

Shut up Pierre.

 

[ZBBM]

https://twitter.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1068188841268305920

Shut up Pierre.

Speaking from my perspective as a partisan fan, Nylander is beginning to bug me.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Speaking from my perspective as a partisan fan, Nylander is beginning to bug me.

I mean if this really ends up in a trade with a deal reportedly $300-500k away then I'd be pretty upset with both sides.

And of course that's speaking as someone who has been VERY pro-Nylander and pro-Dubas historically.